25nl - 3 bet pot OOP

[FailedHero]

PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) ZOOM - Holdem - 6 players


BTN: $27.64
Hero (SB): $33.32
BB: $12.50
UTG: $26.57
MP: $27.49
CO: $23.90

Hero posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero has T A

fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to $0.75, Hero raises to $2.75, fold, BTN calls $2.00

Flop: ($5.75, 2 players) T J 4
Hero ???

- Zoom poker
- Villain is 14/11 over 35 hands. No 3bet/4bet stats yet.
- Is my 3bet ok?
- What's the plan?

[Fnord]

Bet

[gotigers1234]

I am thinking you should fold this pre on the flop I would prob cbet to try to take it down and fold to any raise.

[bikes]

don't fold pre.

bet.

[EasyPoker]

+3 to bet.

[acg123]

i say bet as well. but are we bet/folding? maybe bet/calling if he plays well IP?

[bikes]

we are most certainly b/fing as his equity crushes ours once he raises.

[rpm]

i like preflop. bet/fold flop seems the best of our options now.

[kickass]

I'd flat pre unless BB was squeeze happy.

[rpm]

I'd flat pre unless BB was squeeze happy.

you'd want to be pretty damn good postflop

[bikes]

you'd want to be pretty damn good postflop

Wat.

[Fnord]

I'd flat pre unless BB was squeeze happy.

If the BB is squeezing too light, ATs should be a pretty great hand to shove over.

[kickass]

If the BB is squeezing too light, ATs should be a pretty great hand to shove over.

step ahead of me.

[kickass]

you'd want to be pretty damn good postflop

I assume you have a reason for thinking this, would you mind explaining it? do you have a calling range in this spot?

[FailedHero]

Thanks for the comments.

Same hand with more info ...

PokerStars - $0.25 NL (6 max) ZOOM - Holdem - 6 players

BTN: $27.64
Hero (SB): $33.32
BB: $12.50
UTG: $26.57
MP: $27.49
CO: $23.90

Hero posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero has T A

fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to $0.75, Hero raises to $2.75, fold, BTN calls $2.00

Flop: ($5.75, 2 players) T J 4
Hero bets $3.29, BTN calls $3.29

Turn: ($12.33, 2 players) 4
Hero ??????

So I did bet ... What's the plan now?

[bikes]

bet.

[Fnord]

I'd check/fold.

[baudib]

Why 3-bet? Seems to me that we're wasting a hand that has perfectly good equity that we can flat profitably.

[rpm]

I assume you have a reason for thinking this, would you mind explaining it? do you have a calling range in this spot?

i'm probably wrong. i haven't played poker for a while (and no zoom) and sucked at it when i did. what i was trying to say was that the profitability of this hand if used in our flat-calling range depends on how good we are postflop. for example an absolutely beginner would likely be losing tons flatting this OOP to a steal with no clue about reverse implied odds, no idea about how to extract thin value, no idea how to play back vs a weak Cbet range etc etc. whereas an excellent player could profitably flat-call a far wider range to play OOP here because of their skill level. for me, i doubt i would be able to play this hand profitably if i flat-call in this spot. because i just don't think i have enough postflop skill for it to be +EV. hence i prefer 3betting it (though this is probably the top of my 3-bet "bluff" range. ie it's on the borderline). you may well be able to play this hand profitably, i don't know.

[Fnord]

Why 3-bet? Seems to me that we're wasting a hand that has perfectly good equity that we can flat profitably.

What makes us the most money and do we want to have a flat range from the SB vs a CO/BN open?

[OngBonga]

Bet fucking fold.

[baudib]

What makes us the most money and do we want to have a flat range from the SB vs a CO/BN open?

This is a great point of course. If you want to argue that we shouldn't have a flatting range in this spot, I'm totally open to that.

However, my feeling is in this specific spot is that we have a pretty tight player, but he's in LP so his range is presumably a bit wider. My default assumption about a NL25 6M nit is that he probably sucks postflop, very likely isn't capable of double-/triple-barreling with air/A-high/underpairs.

By flatting we keep his range as wide as possible, and we have perfectly fine equity vs. that range with a hand that can outflop him, cooler a good chunk of his range or flop enough equity to semibluff him off a better hand once in a while. Being OOP definitely hurts but if given the choice, I'd rather take a flop with him and his KT/QT/A9s hands instead of folding them out and playing a bigger pot vs. TT+/AJ+.