cost of health care in the US

[Poopadoop]

The fact that judges award lawsuits for cases that would be laughed out of court in most other countries is definitely a problem. But are you still paying ridiculous prices for prescription drugs? That probably doesn't help either.

In the UK the National Health Service sucks, but health insurance is federalized, paid for through taxation, and universal. Prescription drug prices are state-controlled using profit limits, and the consumer pays only a set amount with the rest of the costs covered by gov't. All of which means (shock-horror!) that the quality of health care doesn't depend on income, unless, by some ironic circumstance, you are too poor to afford a bus ride to the doctor's.

In Canada, which is more on par with the US in terms of GDP, the same type of system exists, but without the prescriptions being subsidized. The costs of pills is still gov't controlled however, meaning that (shock-horror!) poor people can still get quality health care.

Basically the US needs to start considering health care as a fundamental right the way so-called socialist countries do, instead of having the current head up the ass attitude that any government intervention in people's lives is by definition negative EV. The War of Independence ended over 200 years ago. Get over it.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Basically the US needs to start considering health care as a fundamental right the way so-called socialist countries do...

Totally agree.

It's time we recognized that each of the major economic structures (capitalism, socialism, communism, etc.) has certain areas in which it excels over the others. There is nothing dangerous about embracing former enemies' strengths and using those methods to our own advantage. In fact, this is clever.

America has quite successful and beloved programs that are fundamentally socialist ideas: Medicare and Social Security to name a couple.

[Fnord]

Basically the US needs to start considering health care as a fundamental right the way so-called socialist countries do, instead of having the current head up the ass attitude that any government intervention in people's lives is by definition negative EV. The War of Independence ended over 200 years ago. Get over it.

Where do you draw the line between health care as a fundamental right and health care as a luxury good?

Do you dump $$$$$$ to try to add a couple years to Granny's life or do you focus effort instead on making those last days peaceful?

Do you roll the dice for $$$$$$ on a long-shot chance for someone who's critically sick/injured?


The big ones not mentioned in this thread are:
o Big bucks being spent at end-of-life because we are a very wealthy nation who believe in fighting death every inch.
o US is a big cash cow for medical research and manufacturing to recoup R&D costs. Many other countries then get the benefits of that R&D and infrastructure at a lower cost.

I think the fundamental problem is that too often capitalism leaves Children and Mothers at the mercy of Government and Charity.

[Poopadoop]

Where do you draw the line between health care as a fundamental right and health care as a luxury good?

Good point. I don't mind paying taxes for some random poor person to get cancer treatment, but if it's a 300 pound chain-smoker I do feel they are getting a bit of a 'luxury'.

Not sure what else you are counting as a luxury here - care to elaborate?

Do you dump $$$$$$ to try to add a couple years to Granny's life or do you focus effort instead on making those last days peaceful?

Do you roll the dice for $$$$$$ on a long-shot chance for someone who's critically sick/injured?

These are ethical questions for which there is no easy answer of course, though certain countries like the Netherlands now have legalized euthanasia.

The big ones not mentioned in this thread are:
o Big bucks being spent at end-of-life because we are a very wealthy nation who believe in fighting death every inch.

Well I don't mean to be glib, but I think that countries with socialized health care might be showing that they value life more than you guys are. And as far as wealth goes there are many countries in Europe on a par with or above the US in terms of PCI.

But I think cases where a 99 year old person with terminal cancer gets an expensive treatment are exceedingly rare. It's not like we just throw money away to give granny another year of suffering.

o US is a big cash cow for medical research and manufacturing to recoup R&D costs. Many other countries then get the benefits of that R&D and infrastructure at a lower cost.

The pharmaceutical companies spend much more on marketing than on research. The US is paying mostly for that, and for their huge profits. You are not doing the world or yourselves any favours by not regulating the industry. They would still make money without you, just not as much.

I think the fundamental problem is that too often capitalism leaves Children and Mothers at the mercy of Government and Charity.

There is a lot to be said for having a meritocracy that rewards talent and hard work, but there is also a lot to be said for a society that cares for its own. Too often I think the US culture identifies the second part of that equation with ideas that go against what made America great, rather than with ideas that could make America better.

[Eric]

Where do you draw the line between health care as a fundamental right and health care as a luxury good?

Do you dump $$$$$$ to try to add a couple years to Granny's life or do you focus effort instead on making those last days peaceful?

Do you roll the dice for $$$$$$ on a long-shot chance for someone who's critically sick/injured?

How do countries in Europe answer these and other questions?

Suppose Walter, the main character in Breaking Bad, lives in Europe? Does the government pay for a second opinion on his lung cancer diagnosis? He wasn't a cigarette smoker but would the government have paid for his treatment if he got lung cancer because of smoking 3 packs of cigarettes a day?

If a coke addict keeps going to the ER from overdoses does the government keep paying for it?

[Poopadoop]

How do countries in Europe answer these and other questions?

Suppose Walter, the main character in Breaking Bad, lives in Europe? Does the government pay for a second opinion on his lung cancer diagnosis? He wasn't a cigarette smoker but would the government have paid for his treatment if he got lung cancer because of smoking 3 packs of cigarettes a day?

If a coke addict keeps going to the ER from overdoses does the government keep paying for it?

They are covered, at least in the UK.