Bad Shove?

[agnesamurphy]

Lock Poker $500 GTD Bounty Turbo - $2 + $0.2 - 75/400/800 Blinds - 8 Players

I've never played with UTG villain before, and he just joined the table a few hands ago, so I don't have much on him.

BTN (Hero) - 7,410
SB - 13,871
BB - 1,355
UTG - 26,771
UTG+1 - 3,988
MP - 5,195
HJ - 19,765
CO - 14,386

Dealt to Hero 5, A

UTG calls 800, 4 folds, Hero is all in 7,335, BB is all in 480, UTG calls 6,535

Should I have waited for a better spot? Or was it just unfortunate that UTG decided to limp call?

[Luco]

This is a great example of how stack sizes dictate your play in tournaments.

BB will be shoving any two here which means UTG is getting great odds to call if you shove. It's an easy fold.

The two stacks you generally should avoid (short and big) are in this hand. Pick on the mid stacks.

Of course if UTG had folded... well this hand wouldn't even be on ftr.

[agnesamurphy]

This is a great example of how stack sizes dictate your play in tournaments.

BB will be shoving any two here which means UTG is getting great odds to call if you shove. It's an easy fold.

Oh, UTG villain has great odds? I thought it would be horrible odds. I also thought that since he limped that I had a lot more fold equity there than I actually did have.

I knew BB was shoving any two there, which is why I thought it was weak for UTG to limp.

[Luco]

Well he's calling 6,535 to win 16,550 so he needs 40% equity to make a call +cEV. I'm in work and will post limp / call ranges later (unless you want to try) but let's look at it another way...

... I think we can agree that without fold equity this shove is a gamb00l. If UTG is positionally aware then his range is tight and he's not folding here for the chance to knock two more out. If UTG isn't positionally aware then he's an idiot and he's not folding here for the chance to knock two more out.

I would either like for utg NOT to have you covered 4 times over, or for your hand to have a bit more equity against a calling range (say, A8s not A5s) to make this move.

[drmcboy]

he almost can't be a good player, because this would be a nonsense spot to slowplay a big hand and an even worse spot to limp a bad hand.

so, he's an idiot, don't try and make him fold.


this is a spot where if you had ~20+BBs and the table is on the passive side I would consider a limp behind since people often play really dumb in SS AI pots, but with your stack you don't have a play.

[Luco]

he almost can't be a good player, because this would be a nonsense spot to slowplay a big hand and an even worse spot to limp a bad hand.

Notice I deliberately said 'positionally aware', not 'good player'... I totally agree that limping here is bad.

[PoolBoy]

Your at less than 10 BB so shove / fold is correct play. hes got odds to call with the chance of taking out 2 players. Heck he should call with any pair or ax soooted or better. What did limper have anyway?

[agnesamurphy]

AJ suited