Oh hai guys ^_^

[boost]

@ Bikes & @ Boost I get it, mine isn't exactly the least controversial opinion. I just prefer these things be left low key i.e. while I'm all for gay rights, right to marry and what have you, I am against things like the gay pride parade, which I find rather obscene.

anyway, can't we agree there's at least room for reasonable people to disagree here? and not OMFG FUCK YOU, YOU BIGOT like I would get if I even expressed a marginally divergent point of view on imgur or reddit?

I just don't think there is much nuance here. I'm not calling you a bigot, I'm calling you short sighted. It's quite possible you'd hold the opinion you do, but it's also likely you wouldn't, had people not been "out and proud."

I wouldn't mind if fat ugly people didn't make out in public, but you won't see me making a fuss about it. Why would you think your comfort should trump their desire to express themselves? Hell, I clearly don't agree with the KKK's agenda, but I support their right to hold public rallies so long as they are peaceful.

Do you also find Carnival celebrations offensive? They feature half naked people dancing to music and covered in glitter just the same.

[Penneywize]

I just don't think there is much nuance here. I'm not calling you a bigot, I'm calling you short sighted. It's quite possible you'd hold the opinion you do, but it's also likely you wouldn't, had people not been "out and proud."

I wouldn't mind if fat ugly people didn't make out in public, but you won't see me making a fuss about it. Why would you think your comfort should trump their desire to express themselves? Hell, I clearly don't agree with the KKK's agenda, but I support their right to hold public rallies so long as they are peaceful.

Do you also find Carnival celebrations offensive? They feature half naked people dancing to music and covered in glitter just the same.

After thinking about it a little I'm not sure what you have against my viewpoint. If we were to argue whether outward expressions of homosexuality and things like gay pride parades have had their place in changing mainstream opinion over the years I doubt I would raise any points to the contrary. I probably should not have said that I was "against" gay pride parades as that can easily be misconstrued as saying I don't think they should ever have existed though. But I do think they are obscene - and I can have that viewpoint, can't I? Is it not just personal preference?

As for carnival, it seems to me scantily clad women / festive atmosphere etc would sound like a good time. I happen to like women. So I'd definitely check that shit out if I were in Brazil that time of year. Is it obscene though? Maybe. That is, to say, I probably wouldn't bring my children to it.

If your argument boils down to me being shortsighted unless I equally value something like carnival and something like a gay pride parade then I can't say I agree with that at all.

btw Bikes, gettin real tired of your shit man. It strikes me as odd that you seemingly take potshots at me for no apparent reason from time to time without bringing anything to the discussion. I'm sure you're a nice guy irl and shit, but, shocker, if you knew me personally you'd probably think the same of me.

[d0zer]

btw Bikes, gettin real tired of your shit man. It strikes me as odd that you seemingly take potshots at me for no apparent reason from time to time without bringing anything to the discussion.

wtf, yer not tired of my shit though?

[Penneywize]

wtf, yer not tired of my shit though?

I dunno, we used to hang out in IRC a lot and I got to know you a bit so I figure you have earned the right to shit on me from time to time. Bikes I barely ever knew, he just seems to dislike my opinions and insults me for them unprovoked. Which strikes me as pretty lame

[boost]

After thinking about it a little I'm not sure what you have against my viewpoint. If we were to argue whether outward expressions of homosexuality and things like gay pride parades have had their place in changing mainstream opinion over the years I doubt I would raise any points to the contrary. I probably should not have said that I was "against" gay pride parades as that can easily be misconstrued as saying I don't think they should ever have existed though. But I do think they are obscene - and I can have that viewpoint, can't I? Is it not just personal preference?

As for carnival, it seems to me scantily clad women / festive atmosphere etc would sound like a good time. I happen to like women. So I'd definitely check that shit out if I were in Brazil that time of year. Is it obscene though? Maybe. That is, to say, I probably wouldn't bring my children to it.

If your argument boils down to me being shortsighted unless I equally value something like carnival and something like a gay pride parade then I can't say I agree with that at all.

btw Bikes, gettin real tired of your shit man. It strikes me as odd that you seemingly take potshots at me for no apparent reason from time to time without bringing anything to the discussion. I'm sure you're a nice guy irl and shit, but, shocker, if you knew me personally you'd probably think the same of me.

I'm not sure what you mean by "value both of them equally." My point is that they both are "obscene", so I'm not really sure why you'd presumably be ok with one and not with the other. No one's forcing you to go, forcing you to bring your kids, or forcing you to suck a big fat cock. You can hold whatever viewpoint you'd like, and I can hold the viewpoint that your viewpoint sucks. However, I'd prefer to articulate why I think you have a shitty viewpoint. If all you can say in response is "well, we are all entitled to our opinions" you've retreated to a false stalemate.

My point boils down to the fact that people are different and they should have every right to express their differences so long as it doesn't restrict someone else's rights. Whether you like their expression or not doesn't really matter, and I'm quite curious to know why you would think it does. "I personally don't think I'd care to attend a pride parade, but that's cool that they do their thing" is a perfectly reasonable stance. However, eing against a person or group's freedom of expression because you don't find it aesthetically pleasing is pretty much indefensible.

[Penneywize]

My point boils down to the fact that people are different and they should have every right to express their differences so long as it doesn't restrict someone else's rights

Maybe we shouldn't be arguing, then, because I've never said this wasn't the case.

[boost]

Maybe we shouldn't be arguing, then, because I've never said this wasn't the case.

For sure. We probably do agree more than our propensity for argument shows.

All I'll say is that you should just be sure to be very clear of your stance on this issue, as the gays are the underdog. If you aren't careful and no one calls you on it, they might say "yeah, fuck those homos" and feel they have someone else standing with them. Then they go to the ballot box... That's really my biggest fear, a dispassionate and inarticulate majority who favors civil rights, losing out to a vocal and mistakenly encouraged bigoted minority when it comes time to vote.

[Penneywize]

For sure. We probably do agree more than our propensity for argument shows.

All I'll say is that you should just be sure to be very clear of your stance on this issue, as the gays are the underdog. If you aren't careful and no one calls you on it, they might say "yeah, fuck those homos" and feel they have someone else standing with them. Then they go to the ballot box... That's really my biggest fear, a dispassionate and inarticulate majority who favors civil rights, losing out to a vocal and mistakenly encouraged bigoted minority when it comes time to vote.

Yeah you're absolutely right. While at its core I think my viewpoint is quite innocuous it can be easy to misconstrue it or, worse, for me to articulate it poorly. I think maybe being from a country where LGBT issues aren't really at the forefront of politics since the major hurdles i.e. gay marriage and so on have all been passed has something to do with my viewpoint being what it is. In the US I can understand why it'd be desirable to have more people want to be actively pushing in the same direction - publicly, I mean.

[BennyLaRue]

I feel like that was dated. I should have gone with Blake Shelton and Dangerous Muse. Sorry, guys.

[BennyLaRue]

For sure. We probably do agree more than our propensity for argument shows.

All I'll say is that you should just be sure to be very clear of your stance on this issue, as the gays are the underdog. If you aren't careful and no one calls you on it, they might say "yeah, fuck those homos" and feel they have someone else standing with them. Then they go to the ballot box... That's really my biggest fear, a dispassionate and inarticulate majority who favors civil rights, losing out to a vocal and mistakenly encouraged bigoted minority when it comes time to vote.

When and where are we voting? Imma bring a Dave Matthews and a Madonna playlist on my Ipod to make sure I got all dose bases covered.