Not So Vanilla Werewolf Diffusion

[wufwugy]

Omgz teh wolfies are teh eating all teh villagerz! Summat must stop dem! Dat summat r dose villagerz demselves!

Teh Rules

You already know the rules.

Other rules: all villagers have either a seer or angel power on one specified night. Seers can look up anybody, angels can protect anybody. Wolves know exactly how many there are of each seer/angel, but obviously don't know who is what

Teh Living

jkds
ong
rong
jv
gator
jums
bid
bigred
luco
hoop
gabe
daven
keith

Teh Dead

ur mom

Teh Village

10 villagers (seers/angels)
3 wolves

Righto chaps! Hop to it!

Edit to add: Day 1 now, which ends on Wednesday at 2PM PST. Most days will last about 72 hours, but this one's longer because it starts on weekend

Edit again: 7 to lynch

Edit again again: I followed these rules http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?...usion_of_Power

[rong]

Sup.

[OngBonga]

So I got a special role...

[jackvance]

So everyone gets a "you can do X on night Y", including the wolves right? As in, on some nights we won't have a vig/seer/angel because it's the wolves fake turn? If not, we can all out and look for duplicates. But I didn't pay much attention in the sign-up thread..

[OngBonga]

lynch jack

Soulread #1. So much for me playing a different game.

[jyms]

I haven't even read the last games dead thread or followed the game thread so I have no idea what happened and here I am again.
death to the axis

[jackvance]

lynch jack

Soulread #1. So much for me playing a different game.

Well that's everyone's soulread every game. Just to be on the safe side I guess?

[OngBonga]

Well that's everyone's soulread every game. Just to be on the safe side I guess?

Alright you deserve an explanation.

You're not stupid. But you're playing stupid, you made a "villagery" type question when you didn't even check the sign up thread to see if it was covered. Given the game we just played, it's not unreasonable to think maybe the wolves have roles too, but given the roles in play, one would ask what use a x1 seer would be to a wolf. Like I say, you're not stupid. You seem to me to be deliberately trying to ask villagery questions, it didn't strike me as a natural thing for villager jack to ask.

On the offchance you are actually a villager, wolves won't get roles in diffusion. They know how many seers and angels they are, but not who has those roles, and they shouldn't know what nights the powers are active.

[OngBonga]

Oh, and might I emphasise in big capital letters right fucking now -

A PROVEN WOLF SEER REPORT IS NOT PROOF THE PERSON WHO NAILED THE WOLF IS A VILLAGER

I've played this format once, and the last wolf won after sacrificing his buddy. A guilty report is probably honest, but is not to be considered alignment indicative.

And they still might try it, even though I said this.

But maybe not after I said that.

[jackvance]

wow

[OngBonga]

If you are a wolf jack, I'm changing my sig to your wow post.

[JKDS]

I wanted to play this setup because it is a fake claimer's wet dream. Its also really hard to trust anyone's look up result, because even the proven ones could be a play.

@Jack: Wolves shouldnt have gotten powers. But, there could be multiple n1 roles so that wont be any help in identifying wolves.

@Ong: I thought you said you'd be playing different?

[rong]

Lunch ong for intentional misrepresentation.

You heard it here first.

[Savy]

lynch wuf

Becuase let's be honest I had nothing better to do.

[gabe]

lynch rong because only a wolf has "intentional misrepresentation" on his mind

I think ong and jack have a very good chance of being village. I don't think we are going to get a better lead than rong just gave us. it's hard to see myself switching to someone different

[rong]

Fyi I used that expression before in werewolf. It sums up the behavior of wolves quite frequently.

[gabe]

that's fine

[Keith]

wuf can you give some clarification.

In theory Jacks suggestion that everyone out and then look for duplicates should totally imbalance the game in favour of the village,and then ong brings up the case that it has been covered in the signup thread. I actually then read the signup thread and saw ong and wuf having a longish discussion on the mechanics and wuf suggesting that anyone that outs loses their power. Then you get JKDS posting in this thread that diffusion games are a fake claimers wet dream. Do people that "out" lose their power as you indicated, does this mean that people who fake out before they have acted lose their power, which then leads to the question does it mean that wolves only have to concentrate on those people who haven't outted in order to increase their chance of blocking a power.Diffusion games according to the text you linked don't have this losing their power for outing.

Then again, reading carefully through the mafiascum link you posted in the rules section villagers night actions are randomized with 4-6 seers and 4-6 angels and night actions are randomized between night 1 and night 5 so multiple actions one night is possible and no action is also possible. This means Jacks suggestion is useless in terms of identifying the wolves.Jack also mentioned claiming vig which implies he hadn't looked at the mafiascum link to find out that there are no vigs in this game.Was this an oversight from not reading the linked text or deliberate misrepresentation to imply that he hadn't as a wolf would have checked all those rules out.

mini rant
first post had a big "the rules" section. why can't any game specific rules be included in the first post of a game rather than someone innocently posting an idea and then being told its covered in the signup thread. It happened to me last game where MMM pointed out that ongie had hinted at multiple teams in the signup thread in that game.In this games signup thread there was an awful lot of speculation of different rules and roles and formats, I usually just click the signup thread and post an "IN" and don't usually bother reading a lot of the initial banter that occurs.

[Hoopy]

So I got a special role...

Technically wolves are special roles this game........

GET HIM!

[Hoopy]

So everyone gets a "you can do X on night Y", including the wolves right? As in, on some nights we won't have a vig/seer/angel because it's the wolves fake turn? If not, we can all out and look for duplicates. But I didn't pay much attention in the sign-up thread..

Wolves don't have any powers the way I read it. Essentially the village has potential lookups and protects up to night 5.

[OngBonga]

@Ong: I thought you said you'd be playing different?

I am. I can't remember ever claiming special first post then lynching jack sencond post.

And rong - what are you babbling about?

[OngBonga]

Keith, it's a fakeclaim wetdream because every power is a 1x shot use, which means if someone claims and has used their power, they are a suboptimal nom, rather than optimal in the case of a normal seer. This means that a wolf can fakeclaim and then get a pass on we he isn't being nommed, and also get massive villager cred for good measure if he seers a wolf. You could also see a wolf fakeclaim an innocent report on a fellow wolf, or a wolf claim a villager is a villager, which is probably the safest claim of all along with an angel save on someone who wasn't targeted.

[gabe]

not many players so don't expect a long day 1. lets lynch rong and get working on tonight. if I'm right you can clear a villager and kill a wolf !

I have no night 1 power so angel please protect me

[wufwugy]

I followed this to a T: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?...usion_of_Power

Everything discussed in the sign up thread that is not in that link is not relevant. This is a pure Diffusion of Power game.

[rong]

not many players so don't expect a long day 1. lets lynch rong and get working on tonight. if I'm right you can clear a villager and kill a wolf !

I have no night 1 power so angel please protect me

Now the initial bold didn't bother me. We all gotta get shit going. But now you're making a genuine attempt to get me lynched and prancing around like you're somehow onto something. This is ignoring the fact that if I was a wolf it wouldn't clear anyone.

Meanwhile, I've owned shit as a villager in the last 2 games. I guess I'd be good to get out of the way if you're a wolf.

[gabe]

just about everyone in this game is a good player

twice you've defended yourself by referring to past games. that's worth 0.

I'm going to push hard for your death. things I know:
-I'm not a wolf
-I have no powers tonight
-you have had the wolfiest post so far

[JKDS]

I dont think the cases against rong or jack are worth anything.

[OngBonga]

They're wroth more than the case on anyone else, seeing as there is no case on anyone else. Oh aside from me for deliberate misrepesentation or whatever dan is smoking.

[JKDS]

I like keith as a villager again this game. Hoopy too.

lynch jyms, because he felt pressured to post something without actually saying anything.

[JKDS]

They're wroth more than the case on anyone else, seeing as there is no case on anyone else. Oh aside from me for deliberate misrepesentation or whatever dan is smoking.

RVS blah blah blah, THATS NOT OUR META ONG

[OngBonga]

I'm playing differently this game.

[GatorJH]

I haven't even read the last games dead thread or followed the game thread so I have no idea what happened and here I am again.
death to the axis

It's post like this that make me think you are a wolf every game.

[gabe]

I dont think the cases against rong or jack are worth anything.

then you're playing bad already. or you just can't help using hyperbole for dramatic effect

I'd vote for jyms if we all agree to pressure the seer into looking up rong

[rong]

Given that there is a strong possibility of multiple seers acting on the same night, I would think anything that increases the chance of several of them looking up the same person, such as a strong well respected player suggesting a look up, would be beneficial for the wolves.

[OngBonga]

Everyone falls into one of the following categories -

Lynched first last game
Lost as wolf last game
Too strong to lynch first
Modded last game so fuck off

It's actually very tough to find a viable d1 target here. Maybe we should just chat shit and then speed lynch the least active person with a couple of hours to go.

Either that or lynch jack because I soulread him after one post.

[OngBonga]

Oh wait, bigred.

Yeah that sounds like fun. We never get him on day 1. Let's do it.

lynch bigred

[bigred]

Of course I discover the thread to find the last post going after me. Why so mad, ong? I thought we were makeout buddies?

[bigred]

lynch gator so i blend in like normal bigred

[Keith]

Everyone falls into one of the following categories -

Lynched first last game- bid not playing
Lost as wolf last game- hoopy savvy jyms
Too strong to lynch first- rest of us
Modded last game so fuck off- Ongie

last group looks the smallest

[OngBonga]

Mad? Don't call me paranoid.

You must be wolf bigred, you've never been wolf in any of my games. It's your turn.

soulread #2 that is.

[OngBonga]

last group looks the smallest

equal smallest

[OngBonga]

Huh bid is playing.

keith and bid wolves. That's soulread #3.

[Keith]

he may be entered ....doesn't mean hes playing.

[daven]

So everyone gets a "you can do X on night Y", including the wolves right?

the first bit is how it read to me, not the second part though.

[daven]

Other rules: all villagers have either a seer or angel power on one specified night.

^ this

[daven]

lynch wuf

Becuase let's be honest I had nothing better to do.

i'm into seeing what happens if the game mod gets lynched on day 1
Lynch wuf

[bigred]

lynch daven

bro is trying to mess around and act casual, you heard it here first!

[daven]

just about everyone in this game is a good player

i think i just got burned... nh sir!

[daven]

It's post like this that make me think you are a wolf every game.

even in my first game when i was wolf and jyms wasn't i managed to convince myself that jyms could actually be a wolf..

[daven]

Given that there is a strong possibility of multiple seers acting on the same night

rescind wuf
i think this is unlikely. I could get on a lynch rong based entirely on this post = the only wolf-looking action this deep into the thread

[jackvance]

Wolfy because he actually read the rules or what is the reason?

[daven]

last group looks the smallest

keith's post #39 says 'bid not playing'
i think it's unlikely that keith would make this play if he and bid are wolves together

[daven]

lynch daven

bro is trying to mess around and act casual, you heard it here first!

lol nice

[daven]

Other rules: all villagers have either a seer or angel power on one specified night. Seers can look up anybody, angels can protect anybody. Wolves know exactly how many there are of each seer/angel, but obviously don't know who is wha

13 players, ten villagers, one night action. If anyone has a night 4 action then it's almost guaranteed that it's one angel/one seer per night. If anyone has a night 3 action then it's very unlikely that there are many/if any night 2 or night 1 double-ups.

[daven]

Wolfy because he actually read the rules or what is the reason?

last post was in response to this question from jv.

[daven]

if night one angel outs then night one seer outs then can we guarantee lock info on day 2? or is there too much risk with counter-claim stuff? then again, if a wolf fake outs as seer then we find out pretty quickly. Thoughts? angel first in case there isn't a night 1 angel right? cos then having the seer out would be bad cos they'd just get nuked

[jackvance]

It's explained in the link that wuf edited into the first post.

1/3rd chance of a 4/6, 5/5 or 6/4 split of seer/angel
The Mod then randomises a number from 1-5 for each town player. This is the one night that the players' role works on.

So we can have something like seers for night 2, 2, 4, 5 and angels 1, 1, 3, 4, 4, 4 just to make up something random. So there can be multiple look-ups and protects per night, or none.

[daven]

It's explained in the link that wuf edited into the first post.

1/3rd chance of a 4/6, 5/5 or 6/4 split of seer/angel
The Mod then randomises a number from 1-5 for each town player. This is the one night that the players' role works on.

So we can have something like seers for night 2, 2, 4, 5 and angels 1, 1, 3, 4, 4, 4 just to make up something random. So there can be multiple look-ups and protects per night, or none.

didn't click the link. looks like i should have.

[OngBonga]

Yeah daven is totally a wolf, this is what he does when he's a wolf, reads the whole thread and replies individually to each one so it boosts his post count and looks like he's hunting. Standard davenwolf.

lynch daven

[jackvance]

Looks a bit like a davenwolf yes. This I can get behind.

lynch daven

[daven]

Yeah daven is totally a wolf, this is what he does when he's a wolf, reads the whole thread and replies individually to each one so it boosts his post count and looks like he's hunting. Standard davenwolf.

lynch daven

lol see day 1 of the last game, see the game we were wolves together
you are mistaken, it's what i did my first wolfgame, but not since.
every time i'm villager i get heat on day 1 or day 2, when i've been wolf i've not even been on anyone's radar until there are very few players left.
Looks like more of the same on that pattern here.

day 1 soulread = ong/bid/rong

[OngBonga]

There's just no need to respond to each post individually after 1 page, there's very little info to go by and so the only reason I can think for daven's flurry is to make it look like he's hunting, remind everyone indirectly that he's a good person to keep around because look at me reading all the thread and taking notes.

[daven]

Given that there is a strong possibility of multiple seers acting on the same night, I would think anything that increases the chance of several of them looking up the same person, such as a strong well respected player suggesting a look up, would be beneficial for the wolves.

now that i know the first part is true (well, it's possible, but dunno about strongly so) i have to look at the conclusion drawn from that premise. I think the conclusion is iffy - multiple players looking up the same player makes it far harder for the wolves to fake claim or to claim doubt re the legitimacy of the lookup.

[OngBonga]

And bid is a wolf? I'm pretty curious to hear your reasoning for including someone yet to post in your wolf list.

[daven]

There's just no need to respond to each post individually after 1 page, there's very little info to go by and so the only reason I can think for daven's flurry is to make it look like he's hunting, remind everyone indirectly that he's a good person to keep around because look at me reading all the thread and taking notes.

i'm not taking notes, I was simply reading through and responding as i went. As i indicated in the signup thread i'm going to be at least largely afk for three days of this game (wed/thur/fri kiwi time) = i'm actually not a bad fallback lynch if the village can't figure out a better option. I hadn't read the linked info on mafia and i thought i had genuinely caught a wolfish comment from rong based on how i thought the game worked.

I think the post from keith stating that he thought bid wasn't playing was worth highlighting, it's legit info and highlighting that makes sense to me.

The more i think about it, the more i think that there is value in the night one angel outing (if there is one), that allows the night one seer (if there is one) to also safely out - how is that not useful. If there is no night one seer then the night one angel can simply protect themselves = they get to play optimally => either protect a seer or themselves. Yeah, ong, you are wolf.

[daven]

And bid is a wolf? I'm pretty curious to hear your reasoning for including someone yet to post in your wolf list.

wanted to see how you would react, in your listing post you suggested he was a bad day 1 lynch cos we lynched him day 1 last game. I don't think this is sound reasoning... I don't really think i've soulread the wolf team on day 1, but i had reasons for that madness and someone has to play the wuf-role in his modding absence

[OngBonga]

The more i think about it, the more i think that there is value in the night one angel outing (if there is one), that allows the night one seer (if there is one) to also safely out - how is that not useful. If there is no night one seer then the night one angel can simply protect themselves = they get to play optimally => either protect a seer or themselves. Yeah, ong, you are wolf.

Wait, what? This paragraph is weird simply because of the way you finish it. It gives the impression that I am arguing against the idea of a n1 angel outing... I haven't even thought about it, let alone commented about it.

Explain slowly please how I'm a wolf... and then go into detail about how bid is my buddy.

[OngBonga]

wanted to see how you would react, in your listing post you suggested he was a bad day 1 lynch cos we lynched him day 1 last game. I don't think this is sound reasoning... I don't really think i've soulread the wolf team on day 1, but i had reasons for that madness and someone has to play the wuf-role in his modding absence

Of course it's sound reasoning. In the sign up thread I suggested drew should be d1 lynchproof. Ofc I was joking but I'm serious when I say I don't want to lynch him today because it's not good to keep lynching the same player over and over on d1, it's likely to cause him to stop playing if it's a regular event. To suggest he's a wolf before he posted because you have a vague "read" that I'm a wolf and you saw me not want to lynch him, this is pretty desperate soulreading on day one, putting any of my feeble efforts to shame.

Wolf it up harder daven.

[daven]

Wait, what? This paragraph is weird simply because of the way you finish it. It gives the impression that I am arguing against the idea of a n1 angel outing... I haven't even thought about it, let alone commented about it.

Explain slowly please how I'm a wolf... and then go into detail about how bid is my buddy.

you suggested my flurry of posts was a waste of space so early. i highlighted comments people had made that i thought were game-relevant, or which amused me.

What do you think about the idea of hte night one angel outing? i'm interested in everyone's views on the pros and cons of this.

that you seem to be against the content of my posts suggests to me that you are more likely than random to be wolf. The bit about bid was that you posted this:

Everyone falls into one of the following categories -

Lynched first last game
Lost as wolf last game
Too strong to lynch first
Modded last game so fuck off

It's actually very tough to find a viable d1 target here.

seems to me that a) some players fall into more than one category (and as a villager i'd expect you to write 'one or more of' rather than 'one of', and b) it seems to be a weird argument against lynching bid when he's possibly going to end up being our best day 1 lynch here in the absence of gaining some reads/thread content.

[daven]

pretty desperate soulreading on day one, putting any of my feeble efforts to shame.

i've posted early soulreads in other games too. They've been wrong so far. Doesn't mean it's a terrible thing to do... when i post soulread posts they are at least partially in jest, but it's interesting to see the responses they provoke. When i post cases it's a case, not a soulread (e.g. my jkds=wolf 'read' in the last game).

yah, rescind, lynch ong

[daven]

also, nice work of accusing me based on a read without basis in fact, and then ignoring me telling you your read is fos and why

Yeah daven is totally a wolf, this is what he does when he's a wolf, reads the whole thread and replies individually to each one so it boosts his post count and looks like he's hunting. Standard davenwolf.

lynch daven

lol see day 1 of the last game, see the game we were wolves together
you are mistaken, it's what i did my first wolfgame, but not since.
every time i'm villager i get heat on day 1 or day 2, when i've been wolf i've not even been on anyone's radar until there are very few players left.
Looks like more of the same on that pattern here.

day 1 soulread = ong/bid/rong

[OngBonga]

What do you think about the idea of hte night one angel outing?

It tells the wolves who not to nom.

[OngBonga]

also, nice work of accusing me based on a read without basis in fact, and then ignoring me telling you your read is fos and why

I didn't ignore you. I read it and didn't feel compelled to remove my vote based on your explanation.

[OngBonga]

And I didn't say I was against the content of your posts. You're misrepping me here. I said that what you were doing is what I've seen you do when you're wolf - flood the thread with catch up style posts. It's all the more strange here because it was still page one when you got started.

[GatorJH]

if night one angel outs then night one seer outs then can we guarantee lock info on day 2? or is there too much risk with counter-claim stuff? then again, if a wolf fake outs as seer then we find out pretty quickly. Thoughts? angel first in case there isn't a night 1 angel right? cos then having the seer out would be bad cos they'd just get nuked

I read this on the link wuf posted - "It's possible for there to be multiple players with the same power and night."

Doesn't this mean there could be an angel on night one, but no seer? Or an angel and multiple seers? What happens if just an angel outs? What happens if an angel and two seers out? Couldn't a wolf out as an angel and just roll the dice that the seer doesn't look up a wolf?