$10 zone

[acg123]

How freaking wide is your SB flatting range to a 3x open from MP that you play K7s?

I'd play 97s before K7s. MP opens are expected to be heavily laden with broadway cards and PP's. Having a K with a weak kicker is going to put you in terrible decision spots. Playing SC's for 2-pair+ hands is much safer when OOP against a predictable opponent.

I think the only 3X hands in SB range would be { 33, A3s }. There's plenty of SC's and AXs in a SB flatting range, though.

I'd perceive your range as mostly flushes, sets and Aces up, with an occasional wheel, and a healthy dose of random spew. (Everyone at 10NL has random spew, more than they perceive in themselves).

If I was Villain and I called, I'd smile that you had AKo in this spot. I'd smile cause I think you played PRE in such a way that you're going to end up misplaying the hand post almost every time.

Here, you represent strength, but you're holding the bottom of your range... weaker than you've represented... meaning you turned AKo into a bluff when you had decent showdown value.

I 3bet hands like K7s etc, not call. The reason is people play supertight vs. A 3bet even in position. I use to 3bet AKo vs every position (except UTG)until i realized that people are folding too much to 3bets. Bovada has a weird but cool thing where two days after a hand is played you can see ALL opponents cards that were dealt. Whether they played or not. So i went back and looked and people are opening alot of broadways and folding to 3bets. So why eould i 3bet AKo? its a pretty good favorite vs that range. So i choose to to 3bet hands that have equity vs. That range but not enough equity to call. Hence i 3bet my premiums, and weaker Axs,Kxs that cant profitably call as bluffs. You see what im saying?
I built my ranges after reading spoons articles and thought i had a decent idea of what was going on. When i get to my computer ill post my ranges that ive constructed, see what you think.

[MadMojoMonkey]

I 3bet hands like K7s etc, not call.

My point was that K7s is a weaker hand that 97s when you're not all-in PRE. If I was going to play 1 or the other, I'd pick 97s. If you're defending your SB to MP openers with a range wide enough to include both, then you're playing a lot of -EV hands in that spot. Personally, I wouldn't even play 97s against an MP opener, I'd rather be 3-bet bluffing with A2s-A6s. I will prob. 3-bet 97s against an aggressive blind stealer on my right a non-zero % of the time, but it's not a go-to tactic. I do not play a weak KXs hand from any position other than to steal blinds when it's folded to me on the BTN. (At full ring cash game.)

The reason is people play supertight vs. A 3bet even in position. I use to 3bet AKo vs every position (except UTG)until i realized that people are folding too much to 3bets.

When they don't fold... what are you in a hand against (their range)? And what are you holding (your range)?

Bovada has a weird but cool thing where two days after a hand is played you can see ALL opponents cards that were dealt. Whether they played or not.

They open for viewing 24 hours after you close the table. It's not technically 2 days, but I usually go back 2 days to study/review, since I prefer to study before I hit the tables, rather than after. I note hands by their hand # and the time of the hand for when I want to review them later.

This is an excellent tool, and you should def. be using it.

So i went back and looked and people are opening alot of broadways and folding to 3bets. So why eould i 3bet AKo? its a pretty good favorite vs that range. So i choose to to 3bet hands that have equity vs. That range but not enough equity to call. Hence i 3bet my premiums, and weaker Axs,Kxs that cant profitably call as bluffs. You see what im saying?

It's hard to imagine them having a continuing range against which AKo is not at least a 0EV hand.

You simply must bet the top of your range, and AKo is way up in the top of your range. Playing AKo in 3-bet pots will win you more money when you win the pot than when you play AKo in not 3-bet pots. You're not gaining value by NOT betting your top holdings.

I built my ranges after reading spoons articles and thought i had a decent idea of what was going on. When i get to my computer ill post my ranges that ive constructed, see what you think.

To be fair, you're approaching a sensible thought process for constructing your ranges. You're not there yet, but you're heading the right direction.

There's no use in posting your ranges w/o Villain's ranges and a betting scenario.

It's much better to take this hand as a guide and say, MP has over 200BB, and opens from MP at 3x.
1) What is Villains range?

It is folded to Hero in the SB, let's assume the BB will always fold for the sake of simplicity.
2) What %-age of hands does Hero need to continue with to prevent being exploited?

Assuming Hero 3-bets to 9x:
3) What range will Villain 4-bet? / What range will Villain flat? / What range will Villain fold?


4) Using the answers to these 3 questions, what does that tell us about Hero's optimal range to call a raise? to 3-bet/fold? to 3-bet/call?
(Let's just assume Hero can not 5-bet for now, since even 4-bets are rare at the micros.)

[acg123]

I'd rather be 3-bet bluffing with A2s-A6s.
exactly what im doing with K7s. villians fold sooo often to 3bets that I think its profitable to 3bet bluff K7s.

I will prob. 3-bet 97s against an aggressive blind stealer on my right a non-zero % of the time, but it's not a go-to tactic.
every hand has new players, theres no way of knowing if villians agro or not. so I constructed my ranges based on what hands im opening


When they don't fold... what are you in a hand against (their range)? And what are you holding (your range)?
theyre holding 22-TT,A9s-AJs,ATo-AJo,KQs (94combos) and another 10 combos or random so 104 combos.

im holding my value range (88+, AJs+, AQo+) or my bluffing range (A6s-A3s, K8s-K6s, Q9s-Q6s, J9s-J6s, T6s+, 96s+, 86s+)
which have 64.89% equity and 39.83% respectively.

.

This is an excellent tool, and you should def. be using it.
word.

You're not gaining value by NOT betting your top holdings.
excellent point, and well taken. I need to 3bet for value and not flat and give monies away. got it.



It's much better to take this hand as a guide and say, MP has over 200BB, and opens from MP at 3x.
1) What is Villains range?
22+,A9s+,A5s-A2s,K9s+,Q9s+,J9s+,T9s,98s,ATo+,KQo


It is folded to Hero in the SB, let's assume the BB will always fold for the sake of simplicity.
2) What %-age of hands does Hero need to continue with to prevent being exploited?
this I do not know. I also do not know how to figure out so an explanation would be sweet.

Assuming Hero 3-bets to 9x:
3) What range will Villain 4-bet? / What range will Villain flat? / What range will Villain fold?
4bet range = JJ+,AQo+,AQs+(56 combos)
flatting range= 22-TT,A9s-AJs,ATo-AJo,KQs (94 combos)
folding range=A5s-A2s, KJs-K9s, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, 98s, KQo(68 combos)

Using the answers to these 3 questions, what does that tell us about Hero's optimal range to call a raise? to 3-bet/fold? to 3-bet/call?
idk honestly, that's why your sir mojo, so you can explain or give me an example so I can do it myself.

these are all assumptions aswell. ive been writing down hands after bovada releases them where a villain with 100BBs open and or calls so I can construct more accurate ranges. its very slow and tedious so its difficult for me to get a lot done without getting bored in 6 seconds.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkeyI'd rather be 3-bet bluffing with A2s-A6s.

exactly what im doing with K7s. villians fold sooo often to 3bets that I think its profitable to 3bet bluff K7s.

there's a big difference between K7s and A2s especially when you get into 3bet pots which implies more money in the pot. The Axs hands are drawing to the nut flush draw , the K7s type hands are drawing to the beatable flushes so are getting into RIO (reverse implied odds) trouble with them , if you hit a K high flop you aren't gonna be happy getting your money in since villain will have a lot of better K's in his range . You aren't gonna like hitting your seven either.
In comparison the A2-A6 hands are going to have more straight outs especially on low flops that villains will be happy to stack off with their premium over pairs vs. A2-A6s are going to be a lot easier to play , going to hit flops better and will let you draw to the nuts and bigger pots than K7s type hands.

In a way its similar to the XYo vs XYs argument , the suited hands only have about 2% more equity, but when you hit you will be winning bigger pots with the flushs than with the non flush hands.The point is not to just bluff, but if you do get called that you should have some playability with the hands that you are bluffing with.