Make the Call? FD Big Pot Brewing

[acg123]

fold pre twice
call turn

if your in BB then flatting might be ok, but SB?? nooo...just no. this is a 3bet or fold kind of hand.

[Keith]

if your in BB then flatting might be ok, but SB?? nooo...just no. this is a 3bet or fold kind of hand.

in a vacuum why would you want to 3bet this hand at a stake where villains typically don't fold. you are setting yourself up to be in a horrible RIO situation drawing o second best flushs , and when you have nut flush draw A on the board is going to be a scare card to villains and will hit there 3bet continuing range pretty hard, and if you do flop the nut flush you are unlikely to get paid.. About the only thing its got in its favour as a 3bet bluff is that its easy to dump to a 4bet but that same principle should apply making it easy to dump to a 3bet.

[acg123]

in a vacuum why would you want to 3bet this hand at a stake where villains typically don't fold. you are setting yourself up to be in a horrible RIO situation drawing o second best flushs , and when you have nut flush draw A on the board is going to be a scare card to villains and will hit there 3bet continuing range pretty hard, and if you do flop the nut flush you are unlikely to get paid.. About the only thing its got in its favour as a 3bet bluff is that its easy to dump to a 4bet but that same principle should apply making it easy to dump to a 3bet.

yes its a bluff, you talk about the times we hit the board, what about the other 60-70% of the time we miss?

I guess it doesn't matter, what im trying to say is 3betting is better than flat calling. you have control which is key at the micros. why give the OP advice on how to play a hand that he has misplayed from the beginning? unless BTN is opening 100% flatting is not +EV and based on OP's statement "My 3bet call is a little loose. But the BB's 3bet is pretty strong" then he knows hes behind but gambled anyway and is looking for any reason to continue with a weak hand vs. a strong range. encouraging this type of thinking is not good imo.

"I call thinking that *if*I hit, we're getting it all in."
hit what? the nuts? lol this type of thinking will make you a marginal losing player. I know ive been there when I first started playing. what you should be thinking, is what flop textures will villain fold to a raise? or something that has an "out" you need a plan. calling to hit and "GII" is not a plan.

I was also thinking that if I pair the K, that *could* be good.
what hands are going to pay you off on a K high board?
please just don't call for the sake of it, like I said have a plan, a real plan that explores all your options, I would rather cold 4bet pre after the squeeze then flat and x/c. at least then there are 2 ways to win, your only leaving yourself 1 real "out". make the nuts or TP+ which the only time your going to get action on a TP board is when he has you crushed.

the reason im being blunt is explaining how to play this hand the way you played it will only cause you many ,many headaches and put you in tough spots later on. if you fix it now and learn about ranges, equity and manipulation of both of those then you will become a much better player much faster. don't focus on spots like this, you made a mistake so what? I make mistakes everytime I sit to play poker. learn from it and please don't flat unless you have a plan to steal postflop. ( which to do that you have to put villain on a range, which makes you think about your equity vs that range, and how much of that range will fold to x/r OTF (manipulation)) x/r was just an example. I hope im not perceived as being out of line here, I just wish when I was first starting someone would of told me just like that. it would of saved me many headaches, and monies too. lol

[IslandAK]

Wow! Thank you for all of the insight. This particular dummy play has been removed my game.

I appreciate everyone's responses. And I know the answer:

fold pre twice

I tried to answer a few posts below.

If we have fold equity pre, I would 3b. If not, I would fold.

Got it.

in a vacuum why would you want to 3bet this hand at a stake where villains typically don't fold. you are setting yourself up to be in a horrible RIO situation ...About the only thing its got in its favour as a 3bet bluff is that its easy to dump to a 4bet but that same principle should apply making it easy to dump to a 3bet.

Makes sense.

he knows hes behind but gambled anyway and is

Yes.

looking for any reason to continue with a weak hand vs. a strong range

No. I was asking to see if my fold was incorrect given the hand. I folded, finally, as you can see in the hh. If I was looking for a reason to call I would have. I felt like it wasn't automatic, either way.

"I call thinking that *if*I hit, we're getting it all in."
hit what? the nuts? lol this type of thinking will make you a marginal losing player.

I hear you. I meant the flush, two pair, trips, boat, quads. Not defending myself, just answering the question.

I was also thinking that if I pair the K, that *could* be good.
what hands are going to pay you off on a K high board?

Most hands wouldn't have "paid me" big. I think I get money from 2nd pair and pocket pairs a lot of the time. I see how this is a dumb play.

the reason im being blunt is explaining how to play this hand the way you played it will only cause you many ,many headaches and put you in tough spots later on. if you fix it now and learn about

I have no issue (none) with bluntness.

ranges, equity and manipulation of both of those then you will become a much better player much faster.

I'm still learning this. Never really did the first time around.

...please don't flat unless you have a plan to steal postflop. ( which to do that you have to put villain on a range, which makes you think about your equity vs that range, and how much of that range will fold to x/r OTF (manipulation))

There is basically no stealing this particular hand. I *will* pay attention to what you wrote here.