**** Elections thread *****

[wufwugy]

How would you change the agreement to favor the US more?

There are all sorts of things that can be done. The simple removal of tariffs benefits Mexico more than US for a variety of reasons, but that's only a small part of what goes into Mexico/US relations. I'm not as studied on this aspect of economics as others, so I can't give a strong rundown of the details.

[Poopadoop]

The simple removal of tariffs benefits Mexico more than US for a variety of reasons

It benefits both. Even if it benefits Mexico more than the US, it still benefits the US overall. Applying tariffs may hurt Mexico but it will also hurt Americans. And if Mexico applies tariffs in retaliation it will hurt both countries more. And since tariffs are the crucial issue in any free trade agreement, it's hard to see how renegotiating NAFTA is going to benefit the US in any significant way.

Here's what I think will happen: Trump will make a big song and dance about renegotiating NAFTA, because he either doesn't understand how foreign trade works and thinks he can screw other countries like he screwed over building contractors, or because he's dug himself a hole by talking about it so much that he can't back down now. Him, Trudeau, and Nieto will meet, there'll be some minor, insignificant adjustments here and there, and Trump will claim a 'huge, tremendous victory' for the US and that this will pay for the Wall (assuming it goes ahead) 'several times over'. The media will crunch the numbers and say 'wtf', and Trump will reply with some hateful tweets about 'fake news'. The joint ministers of propaganda Kellyanne Conway and Sean Spicer will come out with some alternative facts about how it's a great deal and the Trump supporters will lap it up. Everyone else will be unimpressed.

[wufwugy]

It benefits both.

Not necessarily. The idea has been orthodox for a while. Economists have begun questioning it recently because the results are not what they're supposed to be.

[BananaStand]

doesn't understand how foreign trade works

Holy christ.....

Why do you think Trump is rich? Did he get all that money by not understanding business? Whenever someone invokes the "trump is dumb" or "trump doesn't understand", or "trump doesn't get it", I can't help but just roll my eyes and assume I'm talking to someone oblivious to reality.

If you're so smart, where are your billions?

In regards to Twitter, how much time do people think he actually spends tweeting on an average day? One tweet can take up an entire day's news cycle it seems, when it reality, it probably ate up about 2.8 seconds of Trump's day. They make it sound like he's pounding on a keyboard all night throwing a cyber-tantrum.

The fact is, he wouldn't use Twitter so much if the media gave him any shred of a chance. If they respected the rule of law, and the results of the election at all, Trump wouldn't have to do this so much. Instead, there is an overt movement by left wing politicians and the left win media to completely de-legitimize Trump. Every news and political organization out there is dedicated to non-stop attacks.

Trump NEEDS a rapid-deployment defense mechanism, and Twitter provides that.

GW let the media and the left wing press run absolutely wild. That surely hurt his legacy.

[Savy]

Holy christ.....

Why do you think Trump is rich? Did he get all that money by not understanding business? Whenever someone invokes the "trump is dumb" or "trump doesn't understand", or "trump doesn't get it", I can't help but just roll my eyes and assume I'm talking to someone oblivious to reality.

Survivor bias.

[Poopadoop]

Holy christ.....

Why do you think Trump is rich? Did he get all that money by not understanding business? Whenever someone invokes the "trump is dumb" or "trump doesn't understand", or "trump doesn't get it", I can't help but just roll my eyes and assume I'm talking to someone oblivious to reality.

I guess you missed the part I said about foreign trade being a different type of business than building hotels. Foreign trade is not about self-promotion and stiffing contractors and fake universities. These aren't gullible fools you're dealing with, and they're not going to be bullied into doing things against their country's interests.

If you're so smart, where are your billions?

Lol ad hominen.

In regards to Twitter, how much time do people think he actually spends tweeting on an average day? One tweet can take up an entire day's news cycle it seems, when it reality, it probably ate up about 2.8 seconds of Trump's day. They make it sound like he's pounding on a keyboard all night throwing a cyber-tantrum.

It's more than the time it takes him to type the words with his tiny fingers. It's the fact that he's sitting around watching everything that's being said about him. He's watching all the news shows, all the SNL skits. Get a fucking perspective on what matters and stop crying over getting a rough ride in the media. Every president gets criticized by the media.

And he doesn't just tweet to cry over shit. The other day Fox News said the feds should go in and clean up Chicago. Half an hour later he tweets about sending in the feds. Is that really the kind of guy you want running things?

The fact is, he wouldn't use Twitter so much if the media gave him any shred of a chance. If they respected the rule of law, and the results of the election at all, Trump wouldn't have to do this so much. Instead, there is an overt movement by left wing politicians and the left win media to completely de-legitimize Trump. Every news and political organization out there is dedicated to non-stop attacks.

You mean like how he tried to de-legitimize Obama with all that birther shit? Awww, I feel so bad for him.

The reason the media is hard on Trump is T R U M P. There's no-one else to blame; it's really that simple. If he started acting like a decent, grown-up person he would stop getting all the bad press.

[BananaStand]

I guess you missed the part I said about foreign trade being a different type of business than building hotels. Foreign trade is not about self-promotion and stiffing contractors and fake universities

Seriously? How can you not look at the man's business success, worldwide, and at least have a little respect. Lots of companies build hotels. None of them have anyone as wealthy and successful as Donald Trump working there. Just admit, the guy is fucking great at business.

I'm not saying he's an angel, but there are definitely two sides to the story on stiffing contractors and T-University. Besides, do you know any great cornerbacks who have never been flagged for pass interference? Ever heard a basketball player say "if you're not foulin' you're not tryin'"? Did you know, 'rubbin is racin'?

Trump is far from an arch-criminal.

These aren't gullible fools you're dealing with, and they're not going to be bullied into doing things against their country's interests..

Funny, I feel like that's exactly what the rest of the world did to Obama.

Lol ad hominen..

But apt. The point is, it's not easy to get from wherever he started to where he is. Whether he started with a million, ten milllion or half a billion, he's still a tremendous success, even without getting elected president of the United States.

It's more than the time it takes him to type the words with his tiny fingers. It's the fact that he's sitting around watching everything that's being said about him. He's watching all the news shows, all the SNL skits.

I'm sure every president, going all the way back Washington, has paid attention to media coverage. So what? Why does that bother you? So what if he spends twenty seconds out of his weekend to challenge a report on crowd size? Why is that even news?

It's news because a hostile media decided that it's news. They decided that this was concrete evidence delusion and an inability to comprehend facts. He's an old man with an ego who doesn't like being insulted. And when he can take three seconds to respond to an attack, he does it. This isn't news. Everyone has known this about Trump for two years now, and HE STILL WON.

Get a fucking perspective on what matters and stop crying over getting a rough ride in the media.

The media coverage of the POTUS definitely matters. It affects his perception to voters, it affects the party's perception to voters, it affects the perception to other countries. It definitely matters. It definitely hurt George W's ability to lead, and it definitely helped cover many of Obama's failings.

You can't deny that the media coverage of politics is a completely different animal after this election. The game has changed. And it's obvious the President needs a defense mechanism to keep salacious and spun-up stories from being propagated as facts.

And he doesn't just tweet to cry over shit. The other day Fox News said the feds should go in and clean up Chicago. Half an hour later he tweets about sending in the feds. Is that really the kind of guy you want running things?

I don't get what you mean?

First of all, you must not watch much Fox News. They've been yelling at Emmanuel to call in the National Guard for a long time now. That narrative has been out there. It's an option that's always been on the table. Just because Trump seized on it as a potential solution doesn't mean he's a media puppet. It means he sees a problem, is genuinely concerned, and promises action.

In other words, he's doing the job of the president of the united states. Sheesh.

That being said, it is obvious that Bill O'Reilly has Trump's ear on some things. But to tell you the truth, I think that's great.

You mean like how he tried to de-legitimize Obama with all that birther shit? Awww, I feel so bad for him.

First of all, the "you started it" game, is for fifth graders. Secondly, if Obama wants to be resentful, he can be. How is that NBC and CNN are the 'enforcers' here? Third, Trump started the birther stuff as one man, a private citizen. That's WAY different than a coordinated agenda by a supposedly ethical and impartial media. And fourth, when he was proven wrong, he backed off, and admitted publicly that he was wrong. That doesn't sound like the delusional tantrum-thrower the media is trying to create now.

The reason the media is hard on Trump is T R U M P. There's no-one else to blame; it's really that simple. If he started acting like a decent, grown-up person he would stop getting all the bad press.

Zoom out a little more. The only way Trump could get elected was to do and say things exactly as he did throughout the campaign. He manipulated the media coverage during the primary by purposefully saying crazy stuff, to keep the attention on him. Rather than admit that they were being played, the media has chosen to strike back in viciously personal ways.

I mean, during the campaign Trump said "I want to ban all Muslim immigration". A student in an 8th grade civics class could give you 20 different reasons why that would be unconstitutional/illegal. Do you really think Trump didn't know this? Do you really think that he believes such an order could become law? Do you really believe that as successful as he's been, that he's THAT stupid???

That's how the media played it. "this guy doesn't even know the first amendment, how can he be president???"

It's been proven now that those statements were merely the openings for negotiations. That's obvious in light of the fact that Trump's actual order was to shut down immigration from just 6 countries, for a mere 30 days. Given how that played out, you'd think that the media would be open to the wall being paid through a renegotiation of NAFTA, rather than Nieto showing up in Juarez in a sombrero holding a giant novelty check.

That doesn't seem to be the case. You almost never hear the news media mention the 30-day restriction. You just hear "trump slams the door on muslims". The other day I saw a CAIR spokesperson on TV being asked about this order. He said "Well this is obviously just the first of many anti-muslim acts to come from this administration" or something like that. In other words, he's protesting his own hypothesis. That's the sin the media is committing. They're taking the 'extreme what-if', and making it today's news.

[Poopadoop]

So much drivel in one post, I don't even know where to start.

Seriously? How can you not look at the man's business success, worldwide, and at least have a little respect. Lots of companies build hotels. None of them have anyone as wealthy and successful as Donald Trump working there. Just admit, the guy is fucking great at business.

You know what I think when I see a real estate billionaire? 50% good businessman and 50% con man. And no I don't respect that. And even if I thought he was 100% great businessman, it doesn't change any of the other impressions I have of him. Not everything in life is measured in how much money you have.

I'm not saying he's an angel, but there are definitely two sides to the story on stiffing contractors and T-University. Besides, do you know any great cornerbacks who have never been flagged for pass interference? Ever heard a basketball player say "if you're not foulin' you're not tryin'"? Did you know, 'rubbin is racin'?

So someone who scams people out of their life savings is no different than someone who commits pass interference. Gtfo.

Trump is far from an arch-criminal.

That's your defense of him? He's not an arch-criminal?

Funny, I feel like that's exactly what the rest of the world did to Obama.

Maybe you feel that because you've heard Trump say it about a billion times. If that's your barometer on the truth, then I can't help you.

The point is, it's not easy to get from wherever he started to where he is. Whether he started with a million, ten milllion or half a billion, he's still a tremendous success, even without getting elected president of the United States.

Did I say he was not a great success? Did I say he's not a billionaire? No, I said he's an idiot.

I'm sure every president, going all the way back Washington, has paid attention to media coverage. So what? Why does that bother you? So what if he spends twenty seconds out of his weekend to challenge a report on crowd size? Why is that even news?

Sure they have. But no president until now has gone full retard on slamming the press. And it's not 20 seconds a weekend, it's almost daily. And when he's not doing it he's got his ministers of propaganda doing it. It clearly eats him up inside whenever he gets criticized. He obviously can't handle it like a mature adult. That's not a good trait for a leader to have, unless he's a dictator maybe.

He's an old man with an ego who doesn't like being insulted. And when he can take three seconds to respond to an attack, he does it.

You seem to think that being thin-skinned is a reason to respect him. I don't.

[Jack Sawyer]

But apt. The point is, it's not easy to get from wherever he started to where he is. Whether he started with a million, ten milllion or half a billion, he's still a tremendous success, even without getting elected president of the United States.

This point is incorrect bordering fandom and delusion. If you start closer to the finish line, you will be running records compared to those who started at the actual starting line.

If somebody gave (GAVE) you a business network and 1 million to run wild, you would have to really suck in order to not make anything out of that.

[wufwugy]

If he started acting like a decent, grown-up person he would stop getting all the bad press.

He would also lose and be far less effective.

That he has done so much already and yet adversaries still think he's done nothing except be dumb on twitter is testament to how effective his strategy is.

[BananaStand]

He would also lose and be far less effective.

That he has done so much already and yet adversaries still think he's done nothing except be dumb on twitter is testament to how effective his strategy is.

It also proves how weak-sauce irrelevant those adversaries are

[bigred]

Holy christ.....

Why do you think Trump is rich? Did he get all that money by not understanding business? Whenever someone invokes the "trump is dumb" or "trump doesn't understand", or "trump doesn't get it", I can't help but just roll my eyes and assume I'm talking to someone oblivious to reality.

If you're so smart, where are your billions?

He inherited a small fortune from his father and his father's already developed real estate and business network. The guy was given a platform to pay other people to succeed for him and he still went bankrupt multiple times.

http://fortune.com/2015/08/20/donald-trump-index-funds/

[wufwugy]

He inherited a small fortune from his father and his father's already developed real estate and business network. The guy was given a platform to pay other people to succeed for him and he still went bankrupt multiple times.

http://fortune.com/2015/08/20/donald-trump-index-funds/

The proportion of successful business ventures to failures is very, very high.

[BananaStand]

The proportion of successful business ventures to failures is very, very high.

Exactly. If your aces get cracked, you're not a bad poker player.