The Wall

[MadMojoMonkey]

In regards to 'taking our jobs'. To some degree they are. But there is a bigger picture. When Jose mows your lawn for $5/hr, he's helping to hold down the wages for the entire labor market. Perhaps a legal worker is making $10/hr, but if he didn't have to compete with Jose, he could demand $12.

I don't see whether this is a positive or a negative and for whom.
So long as all parties are free to negotiate their wage, then there is no problem, only some people getting all butthurt because the way they want the world to be is not the way the world is. I would love to make double or triple my current wage. If I try to demand that, then someone else will come along and offer to do my job for much close to my current wage and I'm cut out. That's the nature of negotiation.

Here, "legal worker" is free to lower his asking price or to admit that he can't live off of such a low wage and to seek employment elsewhere. "Legal worker" may find that he's being under-bid across the board. That's indicative of a disconnect between his perceived value and others perceived value of his abilities.

Ultimately this is the nature of supply and demand, and I don't see what/whom you're saying is at fault.

I know what you're thinking....

"But, Prices!!"

Nope. Not what I was thinking.

I reject that argument. It was very recently that the price of gas in the US was double what it is now. We took it on the chin. The world didn't stop spinning. Certainly we can absorb an extra 50 cents/lb for strawberries, or pay an extra $5/night for a hotel room. Seems like a small price to pay for the assurance of a fair labor market.

Plus, consumers paying higher prices will receive some benefit back. If the illegal jobs are made legal, there will be tax revenue.

Dude. I think you successfully refuted the point no one was making aside from some imaginary opposition in your head.
Congratulations! You've outsmarted yourself.


We took it on the chin?
Do you remember the outrage and public outcry over the increased fuel prices. People were losing their minds.

I'm all in favor of a fair labor market, but adhering to the current laws like they're some Bible is not compelling me to see the status quo as fair.

[BananaStand]

I don't see whether this is a positive or a negative and for whom.

It's a negative. For the whole economy.

I would love to make double or triple my current wage. If I try to demand that, then someone else will come along and offer to do my job for much close to my current wage and I'm cut out. That's the nature of negotiation.

Ok, now let's suppose you aren't demanding double or triple your wage. Let's say you're happy with the current 'market rate' for your position and experience. Now let's say someone else comes along and offers to do your job for 2/3 of your salary and you get cut out.

Then you hit the job market and find that the guy who took your job isn't alone. There are 11,999,999 just like him out there all willing to do your job for 2/3 of your salary. And they are willing to accept that lower wage because their own criminal behavior makes them more desperate for work. Now the whole market is dragged down and you can't find work unless you also accept 2/3 of your original salary.

Where in that scenario did you do any negotiating? Seems to me like you got fucked over.

In real life, the effect isn't that obvious. It happens slowly, over time. But illegal workers willing to accept a lower wage most definitely depresses wages for all workers. That's....wicked bad.

Ultimately this is the nature of supply and demand, and I don't see what/whom you're saying is at fault.

If there is an illegal manipulation of supply that affects demand for everyone, thus depressing the price of labor; then the fault lies with the illegal manipulators of supply. Namely, that would be the people hiring illegal workers.

Do you remember the outrage and public outcry over the increased fuel prices. People were losing their minds.

People lose their minds about something different every week.