**** Elections thread *****

[Savy]

I accept the possibility that he's playing 3D chess, but whether that's the case or not, he's a defensive twat in this press conference, not a leader when the country needs a leader.

What do you mean by 3-d chess? Do you mean like he's doing something complicated? He isn't. What's good about him is that he doesn't have a personality that results in things sticking to him, because he just chats shit. I don't say chats shit as a bad thing as I think overall it's a very positive thing for him personally to do. In the past 2/3 days I've seen Trump say there are problems with both sides, the far right are terrible, the far left is terrible and it's no ones fault. Now to me that means I think he's just chatting shit with a very slight right agenda because that's his demographic but I can also read that and think he's chatting shit whilst reading into it to think that I agree with him because he will no doubt have said things I agree with even if it's just hinting at something. The fact he's then said 7 others things 2 of which completely disagree with that thing is less important.

The only group he purposefully never agrees with and tries his best to single out is the actual liberal left and they've got themselves into such a mess that bar that actual group pretty much everyone agrees they are annoying, at least.

To think that he has some master plan where he is 10 moves ahead of what's going on is just completely false of all politics, business and life in general. For Trump to work lots of things have had to come together and create the right situation. What people do forget is that Trump has been there the whole time, if that situation never arises people may be like lolololol Trump as a character but when it does he's going to pounce.

[wufwugy]

To think that he has some master plan where he is 10 moves ahead of what's going on is just completely false of all politics, business and life in general. For Trump to work lots of things have had to come together and create the right situation. What people do forget is that Trump has been there the whole time, if that situation never arises people may be like lolololol Trump as a character but when it does he's going to pounce.

I agree that the claims of him using 3d chess (meme version: 12d intergalactic underwater chess) are quite overrating of what is actually going on. However, I estimate some of it is probably 3d chess. The type of example is that it appears to be about as confirmed as can be without actually being confirmed that the Trump administration is planting a significant amount of fake news. The purpose has been to give the media a rabbit to chase, barium meals to find leakers, and to keep the press busy while Trump does actual policy stuff the Democrats don't like.

Another example of 3d chess is the healthcare situation. Trump told us from the beginning that the most likely scenario is that these bills won't pass and that instead we'll have an election with a quickly failing Obamacare on our hands and the Democrats will get blamed while the GOP will be exhausted from failure. So far I've seen none in anti-Trump circles acknowledge this, even though many in pro-Trump circles saw it quickly.

Do we know those are his 3d chess? No, but a solid case can be made that they are. There are other examples of possible 12d intergalactic underwater chess, some I agree with and some I don't, that are very crazy.

[Jack Sawyer]

Another example of 3d chess is the healthcare situation. Trump told us from the beginning that the most likely scenario is that these bills won't pass and that instead we'll have an election with a quickly failing Obamacare on our hands and the Democrats will get blamed while the GOP will be exhausted from failure. So far I've seen none in anti-Trump circles acknowledge this, even though many in pro-Trump circles saw it quickly.

During the press conference, when they asked him about McCain, Trump quickly retorted "Senator McCain? You mean the one who voted AGAINST Obamacare? The McCain that voted against us getting good healthcare?"

Here is the timestamp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=poFDm0WRqUo

Freudian slip during his 3D chess there for sure

[wufwugy]

During the press conference, when they asked him about McCain, Trump quickly retorted "Senator McCain? You mean the one who voted AGAINST Obamacare? The McCain that voted against us getting good healthcare?"

The plan has included Trump saying it's good healthcare at every step of the way and that it should pass pass pass. This is what gives him the utmost credibility once the GOP fails utterly at passing it. Eventually, we're not there yet, but eventually, repeal will be passable because the Dems will be suffering greatly and getting voted out and the GOP will be weak and exhausted. Trump has been positioning himself to make a passable bill possible.

[Savy]

I agree that the claims of him using 3d chess (meme version: 12d intergalactic underwater chess) are quite overrating of what is actually going on. However, I estimate some of it is probably 3d chess. The type of example is that it appears to be about as confirmed as can be without actually being confirmed that the Trump administration is planting a significant amount of fake news. The purpose has been to give the media a rabbit to chase, barium meals to find leakers, and to keep the press busy while Trump does actual policy stuff the Democrats don't like.

Another example of 3d chess is the healthcare situation. Trump told us from the beginning that the most likely scenario is that these bills won't pass and that instead we'll have an election with a quickly failing Obamacare on our hands and the Democrats will get blamed while the GOP will be exhausted from failure. So far I've seen none in anti-Trump circles acknowledge this, even though many in pro-Trump circles saw it quickly.

The part about using/creating news headlines to push through legislation isn't a particularly new or clever thing. Governments all over use it all the time.

The bit about healthcare is better but at the same time you're putting quite a positive framing on it, you could make out that all these things are weak leadership, not being able to get the backing of his own party, lack of parliamentary understanding (american equivalent), not having a strong standing on actual policy, etc.

I would like to say that I think it may be best to separate the left and liberals. Leftism doesn't represent liberal values at all. The left has been hijacking the term liberal for a very long time and it has stuck, but today the left is becoming so aggressive that liberals are beginning to wake up. Like liberal Dave Rubin says, defending his liberal values has become a conservative position. Example of the distinction: liberalism says that race doesn't matter. But according to the left, race (and sex, religion, other group identities) are what matter the most. Leftism is totalitarianism and social justice bigotry. Liberalism is not.

I mostly agree with this. I'm just using terminology that is used which people understand even though I think it's wrong (/it is wrong).

[wufwugy]

The bit about healthcare is better but at the same time you're putting quite a positive framing on it, you could make out that all these things are weak leadership, not being able to get the backing of his own party, lack of parliamentary understanding (american equivalent), not having a strong standing on actual policy, etc.

It certainly looks like that normally. I've been saying it's different from the beginning because I watched what Trump was saying at the beginning. Trump has been subtle enough about what he said that it's not evidence of anything, since the confirmation bias of the viewer is more than enough to counter. But believe me, there is big reason behind why even before the first Ryancare thing got going, many of us in the Trumpian circles thought no bill would pass for quite a while.



On a side note, a huge problem we have is people are mostly made up of those who think Trump is a buffoon and those who think Trump is a genius. To the former, everything he does looks buffoonery, to the latter everything looks genius. The truth is something much more regular. My bias tends slightly on the genius side, but I know it so I try to bring it back when I can. An example is that I initially thought that Trump didn't want healthcare to pass until late, but then I was corrected by somebody who understands Trump's writings well. He is putting himself in a win-win situation. If it passes soon via a functional GOP, he wins; if it doesn't pass until the whole thing collapses next year and legislators are scrambling to make a deal, he wins. From what he has said in public statements, it has been my estimation from the beginning that the latter is what he thinks will happen.

[wufwugy]

The only group he purposefully never agrees with and tries his best to single out is the actual liberal left and they've got themselves into such a mess that bar that actual group pretty much everyone agrees they are annoying, at least.

I would like to say that I think it may be best to separate the left and liberals. Leftism doesn't represent liberal values at all. The left has been hijacking the term liberal for a very long time and it has stuck, but today the left is becoming so aggressive that liberals are beginning to wake up. Like liberal Dave Rubin says, defending his liberal values has become a conservative position. Example of the distinction: liberalism says that race doesn't matter. But according to the left, race (and sex, religion, other group identities) are what matter the most. Leftism is totalitarianism and social justice bigotry. Liberalism is not.

[CoccoBill]

The left has been hijacking the term liberal for a very long time and it has stuck, but today the left is becoming so aggressive that liberals are beginning to wake up.

The terms left and right date back to the French revolution, when in the senate the liberals sat on the left of the isle and conservatives on the right.

[wufwugy]

The terms left and right date back to the French revolution, when in the senate the liberals sat on the left of the isle and conservatives on the right.

Yeah but the French, yo.

French intellectualism being such a disaster, this is a case in point to me. Many of their liberals are in-name-only. Their political-intellectual movements adore them some violent totalitarianism. Maybe it's because all the Huguenots left.

[OngBonga]

I would like to say that I think it may be best to separate the left and liberals. Leftism doesn't represent liberal values at all. The left has been hijacking the term liberal for a very long time and it has stuck, but today the left is becoming so aggressive that liberals are beginning to wake up. Like liberal Dave Rubin says, defending his liberal values has become a conservative position. Example of the distinction: liberalism says that race doesn't matter. But according to the left, race (and sex, religion, other group identities) are what matter the most. Leftism is totalitarianism and social justice bigotry. Liberalism is not.

I've been making this point with those who call the left "libtards". While I find that term amusing, I also find it misleading... these people are far from liberal, at least in the classic sense of the word. Liberals are those who believe in free markets, free speech, free press, fair trials, human rights, equality. These morons are the polar fucking opposite of liberal.