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Mixed Economies Rule, Libertarian Capitalism and Communism Both Suck

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  1. #1
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    The primacy of the individual is an interesting concept, but ultimately it is unworkable. We are social beings. The primacy of the group is the appropriate axiom here.
    This is the [incorrect] line of thinking that leads to communism, true fascism and shit like the Holocaust.

    The primacy of the individual is the only thing that allows a group to flourish. Without that, you cannot have a functional society, which has been proven repeatedly throughout history.
  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    This is the [incorrect] line of thinking that leads to communism, true fascism and shit like the Holocaust.

    The primacy of the individual is the only thing that allows a group to flourish. Without that, you cannot have a functional society, which has been proven repeatedly throughout history.
    For essentially none of history was the primacy of the individual held to be true. Limited individual rights serve the interests of the group.

    At times these rights have been fought for, tooth and nail, using primacy of the individual arguments. I'm glad these fights were fought and that we get to enjoy the individual rights they were fought over, but the success of limited rights is not evidence in support of the primacy of the individual.
  3. #3
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    For essentially none of history was the primacy of the individual held to be true. Limited individual rights serve the interests of the group.

    At times these rights have been fought for, tooth and nail, using primacy of the individual arguments. I'm glad these fights were fought and that we get to enjoy the individual rights they were fought over, but the success of limited rights is not evidence in support of the primacy of the individual.
    Men are born with rights. To the degree to which those rights are limited, men live in tyranny, and right now, you're defending tyranny.
  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    Men are born with rights. To the degree to which those rights are limited, men live in tyranny, and right now, you're defending tyranny.
    One of the best things I ever learned in college was something I wasn't exactly "supposed" to learn, but I did nonetheless because I pay attention to the concepts and data of what is taught.

    That thing is that the American Constitution innovation -- which was new to the world at the time -- was prohibition of government power over the individual in a handful of areas. Quite seriously before the US Constitution, every country had unlimited government rights. America was the first to limit government power by law.

    And as we have seen from economic history since then, adoption of limited government institutions leads to explosion of prosperity.
  5. #5
    people love themselves freedom of speech. they think government grants it and that's why we have it. no, freedom of speech is a prohibition of government to intervene in speech, not something the state gives like a parent gives a child an allowance.

    this is one of the essential confusions that people hold about politics and societies. they think that rights and freedoms derive from some sort of entitlement and authority. no, they derive from limiting the power the state has over the individual.
    Last edited by wufwugy; 02-02-2018 at 09:54 PM.
  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    people love themselves freedom of speech. they think government grants it and that's why we have it. no, freedom of speech is a prohibition of government to intervene in speech, not something the state gives like a parent gives a child an allowance.

    this is one of the essential confusions that people hold about politics and societies. they think that rights and freedoms derive from some sort of entitlement and authority. no, they derive from limiting the power the state has over the individual.
    Freedom of speech is a meme perpetuated by heterosexual cisgender white men in order to silence the speech of the oppressed.
    Resist.
  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by forkitnow View Post
    Freedom of speech is a meme perpetuated by heterosexual cisgender white men in order to silence the speech of the oppressed.
    REVERSE COLONIZED
  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    REVERSE COLONIZED
    You think your economics degree means something, but it doesn't. Economics as a field is the systematic indoctrination of oppression under the guise of what is "earned" by privilege through involuntary transactions termed as "voluntary" through capitalism in the typical doublespeak that is typical of fields completely created by and maintained by the white male cisgender heteronormative oppressor for the express purpose of preserving power that was originally cultivated on the backs of black slaves working stolen lands.
    Last edited by forkitnow; 02-07-2018 at 03:50 PM.
    Resist.
  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    For essentially none of history was the primacy of the individual held to be true. Limited individual rights serve the interests of the group.
    If we're using history, there is very strong evidence that it's the limiting of individual rights that subdued the group, and the adoption of individual rights that empowered the group.

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