Something I should say more often

[wufwugy]

I would like a real nice UBI program because you can bet your sweet ass I know how to move to a cheap part of the country and budget like a gangster.

[MadMojoMonkey]

I would like a real nice UBI program because you can bet your sweet ass I know how to move to a cheap part of the country and budget like a gangster.

Me, too, but not because I want to live like a pauper off the dole of the state.

I think you're in the minority, there, wuf.
I really don't think there's an appreciable fraction of people that want to live in poverty and do "nothing" with their lives.


I want UBI because then we can eliminate unemployment, food stamp programs, welfare, etc.
We wont be able to eliminate all the public safety nets, but we can get rid of the largest and most distrusted ones.


Furthermore, if that's your attitude, wuf, then I bet the business where you work would be more productive if you'd stop playing this game where you work a job, but your heart's not in it. If you never applied for that job, and the only people who applied for the job were people who actually wanted the job, then I bet the business becomes more profitable.

I bet that happens across the board.

The current system forces people to make compromises with their time. That's not inherently bad. It's how it's always been. But the rise of automation is changing the needs on our time. UBI is inevitable. It's just a question of whether the time is now.

[wufwugy]

Furthermore, if that's your attitude, wuf, then I bet the business where you work would be more productive if you'd stop playing this game where you work a job, but your heart's not in it. If you never applied for that job, and the only people who applied for the job were people who actually wanted the job, then I bet the business becomes more profitable.

Heh.

I run the company because of how profitable I've made it.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Heh.

I run the company because of how profitable I've made it.

Still, you'd make another company even more profitable if you had the job you actually wanted.

[wufwugy]

Still, you'd make another company even more profitable if you had the job you actually wanted.

Guess I should find a job I want.

[wufwugy]

I've thought long and hard on this, and I can't yet find how automation causes any need for UBI.

The idea that automation reduces employment opportunities is a legend. It's never happened, and nobody can tell if it will happen in the future.

Theoretically, in my estimation, if it did happen -- where automation made people unable to produce for greater livelihoods -- it would necessarily mean that the people already get better stuff from the automation than that which they can work for. This is probably inevitable to a degree in the far, far distant future with unbelievable technology and people have little need to work.

[MadMojoMonkey]

UBI wouldn't eliminate all other welfare programs. Only the biggest and most distrusted ones.
We'd still need safety nets for people in non-standard situations which UBI can't cover. Healthcare costs are one that comes to mind. Without healthcare insurance coverage for people on only UBI, any hospitalization would break their bank.

Handling UBI for families with varying numbers of children is an issue that people will endlessly fight about.

Another thing UBI eliminates is minimum wage.

[MadMojoMonkey]

I've thought long and hard on this, and I can't yet find how automation causes any need for UBI.

The idea that automation reduces employment opportunities is a legend. It's never happened, and nobody can tell if it will happen in the future.

Theoretically, in my estimation, if it did happen -- where automation made people unable to produce for greater livelihoods -- it would necessarily mean that the people already get better stuff from the automation than that which they can work for. This is probably inevitable to a degree in the far, far distant future with unbelievable technology and people have little need to work.

You make some good points.
It's not a given that increasing automation decreases jobs.

The combine harvester has done more job taking than anything in human history. It's been many decades and that automation hasn't eliminated the number of jobs, it's increased the variety of jobs.

This is typical. This is what happens when people suddenly have free time on their hands. They innovate and find new ways to spend their time, and to participate in society and culture.

This is another big reason I favor UBI, and discard the idea that "if people don't have to work, they wont work."