Watch Police vs guy selling shrooms Video | Break.com
We need to send some good ol boys from Louisiana over to Scandinavia to show these nancies the proper way to beat a nigga
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Watch Police vs guy selling shrooms Video | Break.com
We need to send some good ol boys from Louisiana over to Scandinavia to show these nancies the proper way to beat a nigga
rofl I think they were using hair spray on him
and we need some nawlins niggas to show that nigga whos helping the cops that we don't fuck around like that in america and that shit will get you got ldo....but awesome video lol
lol @ those cops
even in the uk they'd have helmets and tasers
Meh, they tried to contain as they waited for backup. The guy was pretty big. Once backup gets there they pile on and game over. Seems preferable to sadistic American cops on power trips.
sorry shoulda said finnish poliisi hit like a boost
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by boost
The best part was the citizen assisting that kept gently brushing the guy in the face with his broom.
Shows that resisting arrest by other means than running away is very uncommon here.
You guys get like four murders a year or something crazy small
I only wish US cops were like this. It may be hilarious to watch, but IRL that's the kind of cop you want
Also I think that this takes way more balls than the standard for US cops. Once the guy becomes aggressive, an American cop would have just pulled his glock. These guys chose not to escalate it to that. I commend them.
I'm not completely sure about this since these cases are quite rare here, but I'd wager they could be charged for use of excessive force if they did.Quote:
Originally Posted by boost
where is "here"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by boost
Finland
hence the "Finnish poliisi"
;)
*sigh* I understood where the video was, I just did not know that Cocco was finnish.
I know it makes for a feel-good video and all, but something is seriously wrong when it takes 5 cops to subdue a single uncooperative guy.
Note: just because I say the above doesn't mean that I feel the opposite end of the spectrum is right, either.
to be fair, thats a big fucking guy.
I've forgotten the names of the arts, but it's clear the guy practices a weapons-based art.
I think the poliisi handled it perfectly. He wasn't attacking civilians and wasn't currently pounding on anybody, so they try to keep him in check before backup can arrive, then as he starts fashioning his weapons they realize now is the best time. You'll notice the poliisi didn't hit him in the face. Chop at the leg or the shoulder, even though they looked like sallies doing so.
It really makes you think, in the fucking United States of Teabaggers, this guy would be getting curbed stomped by the boys in blue. If Finland or similar nations weren't so frickin freezing I'd consider moving there
lol these are really the kind of cops you guys want?
I might be going against the grain here but I'd prefer having cops in my community who aren't afraid to exercise force. I mean, these guys just stood around basically doing nothing and let this guy arm himself.
Yea you might see videos of american cops handling situations differently than these guys and using more force, but what do all of these situations have in common? The person was doing what the cop asked them to do!
No offense to boost or anyone else, but it annoys me a little bit when people say things like "american cops on power trips". Yes, you're going to get some people like that, but the majority are hard working decent people nothing like that generalization.
If this guy tried to pull this shit in the US he'd have his ass thrown on the ground by two (non pussy) american cops pretty quickly. And if the guy was injured in the process of the cops exercising force, well, I've really got no sympathy for someone who needs the cops called on them in the first place/fights with cops.
The situation is one of going too far vs not going far enough. In US, we see the consequences of the mentality that allows law enforcement to go too far on a regular, pathological basis
I think the Finnish response to this was excellent because it demonstrates control and reason in an attempt to not abuse and go too far. The trade off for this approach is that you get things like the guy able to arm himself with the broom, but really that's a very small mistake compared to the massive abuses of US law enforcement due to the zero tolerance attitude
Not to mention that a gung ho US approach in these kinds of situations actually causes even more collateral damage. In Finland, it looks like the poliisi let a little bit of push come before a shove, in US we let the threat of a push turn into a beating. There are other important factors too like the knowledge that in Finland, the perp is very unlikely to have a gun, but in US that's not the case. I do find irony in people complaining about gun violence and police brutality. Bitches need to realize the inherent contradiction
This is mostly how I feel. I bet it would be pretty laughable if the bozos in the video actually had to diffuse a serious situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by kfaess
Personally, I've never had a truly bad experience with cops (one might qualify, but in the grand scheme of things, it wasn't a big deal). Here's why:
1) I avoid major trouble and confrontations
2) I'm always respectful to police, and that's verbal as well as physical (e.g. no sudden hand movements, reaching behind your back, etc)
3) I do what I'm told
I'm not so naive to say that if you do those 3 things you will never have a bad encounter with cops, but I bet it would eliminate the large majority of them. I also won't deny that there are a lot of cases of excessive force in the USA, but still, if you're not only resisting arrest but also grab a large object and swing it in a way as if to hit the police then yeah, it seems to me that you're lucky if you just get your ass beat.
wuf, I agree with you that things like this are a balancing act and its easy to sway too far to either side sometimes.
However,
This is the part I disagree with. As far as I'm concerned this guy lost most of his rights the instant he starts fighting with the police. Obviously you can't just shoot the guy in the head for taking a swing at an officer, but I'd rather err on the side of slightly too much force than not enough. What if the guy decided to go after the civilian with the broom and broke his nose?Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
It would be interesting if we knew statistics like accusations of police brutality vs convictions of police brutality. Lots of people are just fucking idiots and get themselves into shitty situations and then claim "POLICE BRUTALITY!" when they're being put in handcuffs and stuffed into a police car. You see this on COPS all the time.
If you follow the instructions of the officers then you're going to have no issues, its pretty much that simple. Let's use an example from To Catch a Predator. After they're caught, lots of these guys jog out of the house where they meet a group of police officers. The police yell "get on the ground" every fucking time. Yet some of these guys are so upset that they're caught and going to jail that they do something like just stand there and put their face in their hands. And then they get the shit tackled out of them by the police. Do I feel bad? No, because 1. they're scumbags who broke the law, but 2. they didn't listen to what the police were saying.
Imo, in most cases where police have to use force they're completely justified in what they do.
Looks like they were waiting for backupQuote:
Originally Posted by kfaess
In a way this could be considered a problem of law enforcement not being properly trained in combat. I think it was kinda clear they didn't attack him at first because they thought it could create more problems simply by merit of them not being able to handle him without more bodies
I'm not sure how much I agree with the justification of force in US cops. Yes, most of the time it is probably justified, but man some of the time it is really, really bad. I think the solution comes more out of nurturing a society in which there isn't need for excessive force, which is some of what I was alluding to about civilian firearms. Like I said, in US there is a serious threat to cops that perps can be armed and deadly, but not so much in places like Finland
don't tase me, bro
Yea its a really good point about gun regulations (although I'm still in favor of our right to bear arms), however every single place in the world you're going to have bad apples that break the law no matter if they have guns or notQuote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
Also:
YouTube - Good Police Work
I guess I'd rather live in a society where not doing anything a cop tells you isn't grounds for being treated as dangerous and suspect
There is irony in the fact that US is credited with being the first nation to be founded on the principle that if you wanna leave your hands in your pockets, you can leave your hands in your pockets, and not suffer being treated as guilty before proven innocent. Whether we will admit to it or not, the poliisi scenario is more evident of a free society than the metro police one
The cops were called specifically because there was a fight. You can hear the cop clearly tell the guy to take his hands out of his pockets at least 4 times. After the 3rd time, he actually puts his one hand INTO his pocket. Is that really such a hard or unreasonable request? (To be sure there is no confusion, I think it's perfectly reasonable) Cargo shorts pockets are easily big enough to fit a gun or knife.
If the kid just complied with very simple commands it's very likely nothing would have happened. And if the issue of the fight came up he could simply say something along the lines of, "I'm going to remain silent, officer"
I actually give the officer in this video a lot of credit for going the takedown route as opposed to using a taser or whatever.
Maybe he was hard of hearing, there's a greater than zero probability he would get paralyzed from that takedown, maybe he was high, maybe he was just really stupid
Regardless, there's more than one way to skin a cat, but the way US law enforcement skins that cat is "if you can justify something, it will be justified", which creates all its own problems, and frankly should be considered un-American, as far as that cliche goes
Also, it's not a coincidence that the TV show COPS is looking for ratings, and then something that looks like it would happen in a Statham movie goes down
I bolded the most likely candidate. from the video it's very clear to me that the kid is just being uncooperative, at best. and if he's high that further justifies the officer's action, not because being high is ethically wrong, but because he might not make certain rational choices that he would make if he were sober. How are you feeling in this spot as a police officer when you respond to a call and a participant in a fight is uncooperative, won't remove his hands from his pocket after multiple clear, loud requests, and is possibly high?Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
Good points; I don't disagree.Quote:
Regardless, there's more than one way to skin a cat, but the way US law enforcement skins that cat is "if you can justify something, it will be justified", which creates all its own problems, and frankly should be considered un-American, as far as that cliche goes
Also, it's not a coincidence that the TV show COPS is looking for ratings, and then something that looks like it would happen in a Statham movie goes down
Also, what would be a better way to handle that situation, from the standpoint of the police officer(s)?
you must be kidding. According to you a nonviolent, non aggressive, unconvicted person who is clearly in a state of emotional distress does not follow the cops' exact orders, but instead reverts to a docile gesture perfectly expected of a person in such a state, is deserving of a violent attack.Quote:
Yet some of these guys are so upset that they're caught and going to jail that they do something like just stand there and put their face in their hands. And then they get the shit tackled out of them by the police. Do I feel bad? No, because 1. they're scumbags who broke the law, but 2. they didn't listen to what the police were saying.
I'm not trying to let these guys off the hook, they are indeed scumbags, but how the fuck could you ever objectively reason that the use of force is warranted in the scenario you gave?
Eric, you're a waspy guy from the suburbs of a small midwestern city. Your anecdote is less than worthless.Quote:
Personally, I've never had a truly bad experience with cops
I don't think is is a particularly valid example because of the likelihood of the cops playing up to the camerasQuote:
Originally Posted by kfaess
I probably should have left that out. I stand by the rest, thoughQuote:
Eric, you're a waspy guy from the suburbs of a small midwestern city. Your anecdote is less than worthless.
But this is exactly the problem with America. The country is so vast, that people have complete disconnects from the issues that their fellow Americans deal with on a regular basis. Sure it doesn't affect you directly, but maybe you should take a more in depth look instead of just brushing it off by saying "those people had it coming to them." Police brutality is not a necessary evil. It is an evil. And we need to stop letting cops off the hook so easy. If you're gonna get a fucking twitchy trigger finger at every traffic stop, then don't become a god damn cop.
I feel like it's a tough spot that doesn't warrant overt aggressionQuote:
Originally Posted by Lukie
The cop didn't see the fight, it was just a call. For all he knows the guy who called is mad the Eminem lookin dweeb banged his girlfriend
I do find irony in all the claims of how we're a free country and should be freer coming from the same people who are almost always on the side of excessive police authoritarianism. Not saying you're one of those guys, but the dissonance is a big thing in this country.
I could parrot out the videos of cops pulling over a station wagon of a family and kids because it looked like one described in a robbery, then one of the cops shot and killed the small and non-violent family dog right in front of the children because it got too close to him. Because cops are pretty much "always right", he was justified and nothing other than a slap on the wrist happened
Or the cop who tackled and paralyzed a guy because he was trotting away from a confusing scene where the cops were chasing an alleged bad guy. Again, do everything they can to sweep it under rug and don't change the hugely flawed system
Or the cop who accidentally shot the dude who was already being successfully subdued because he mistook his glock for his taser
Or so many other videos of blatant abuse that may or may not be justifiable, yet are still wrong and should not happen. What we witnessed in Finland with the poliisi is a system structured in such a way that the cops were capable of reservation and safety. In the US, if all cops did that then some of them would start getting shot. This reality has cascaded into an overboard mentality where the possibility that somebody with his hands in his pockets is hiding a weapon, and the cop is justified in accusing him of guilt for that reason
We breed excessive criminality and excessive response to that criminality, and everybody suffers on some level
I dunno, maybe not tackling the guy who did nothing.Quote:
Also, what would be a better way to handle that situation, from the standpoint of the police officer(s)?
The shit was probably staged anyways. I'm thinking that even normal protocol doesn't allow for what the cop did, but I don't know. All they show is that cop witnessing a guy just standing in the street with his hands in his pocket, then the cop tells him to get his hands out of his pocket, then when he doesn't he tackles him. It was staged, or there's something they're not showing us, or the cop was in the wrong. If everything in it is true and as seen at first glance, then what the cop did is no different than you telling a cop that somebody punched you, then the cop puts that person under arrest with zero evidence
Come to think of it, the video was staged. Either that or there's much that they didn't tell. It is Hollywood after all
You (edit: to boost) are putting words into my mouth. Nowhere have I ever excused police brutality or excessive force. Maybe we just disagree on what constitutes as such. In fact, In every one of my posts I have gone out of my way to suggest that brutality is unacceptable:
Quote:
Note: just because I say the above doesn't mean that I feel the opposite end of the spectrum is right, either.
Quote:
I'm not so naive to say that if you do those 3 things you will never have a bad encounter with cops, but I bet it would eliminate the large majority of them. I also won't deny that there are a lot of cases of excessive force in the USA, but still, if you're not only resisting arrest but also grab a large object and swing it in a way as if to hit the police then yeah, it seems to me that you're lucky if you just get your ass beat.
(I say this with the assumption that getting taken down is far preferable compared to being tased)Quote:
I actually give the officer in this video a lot of credit for going the takedown route as opposed to using a taser
Quote:
How are you feeling in this spot as a police officer when you respond to a call and a participant in a fight is uncooperative, won't remove his hands from his pocket after multiple clear, loud requests, and is possibly high?
(In response to wuf's assertion that justifiable doesn't mean right, or something to the effect)Quote:
Good points; I don't disagree.
Whether and to what extent he was involved in the fight really doesn't matter-- the cop isn't there to find innocence or guilt. It's just all the more reason to follow his commands.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
But how else do you respond to non-cooperative person? You still didn't answer directly. You just repeated what you wouldn't do...
All these are significantly different events. Post videos of all of them and I'll give my honest critique. I very well might agree with your take on all of them.Quote:
I could parrot out the videos of cops pulling over a station wagon of a family and kids because it looked like one described in a robbery, then one of the cops shot and killed the small and non-violent family dog right in front of the children because it got too close to him. Because cops are pretty much "always right", he was justified and nothing other than a slap on the wrist happened
Or the cop who tackled and paralyzed a guy because he was trotting away from a confusing scene where the cops were chasing an alleged bad guy. Again, do everything they can to sweep it under rug and don't change the hugely flawed system
Or the cop who accidentally shot the dude who was already being successfully subdued because he mistook his glock for his taser
Or so many other videos of blatant abuse that may or may not be justifiable, yet are still wrong and should not happen. What we witnessed in Finland with the poliisi is a system structured in such a way that the cops were capable of reservation and safety. In the US, if all cops did that then some of them would start getting shot. This reality has cascaded into an overboard mentality where the possibility that somebody with his hands in his pockets is hiding a weapon, and the cop is justified in accusing him of guilt for that reason
We breed excessive criminality and excessive response to that criminality, and everybody suffers on some level
I don't have any idea as to whether or not it was staged.Quote:
I dunno, maybe not tackling the guy who did nothing.
The shit was probably staged anyways. I'm thinking that even normal protocol doesn't allow for what the cop did, but I don't know. All they show is that cop witnessing a guy just standing in the street with his hands in his pocket, then the cop tells him to get his hands out of his pocket, then when he doesn't he tackles him. It was staged, or there's something they're not showing us, or the cop was in the wrong. If everything in it is true and as seen at first glance, then what the cop did is no different than you telling a cop that somebody punched you, then the cop puts that person under arrest with zero evidence
Come to think of it, the video was staged. Either that or there's much that they didn't tell. It is Hollywood after all
I don't agree with the bolded though. The guy did not get arrested or taken down because someone said he was in a fight, but rather because he disobeyed a very simple command related to the officer's safety at least 4 times .
Also this is somewhat tangential to the guns thread, but something like a .38 snubbie would fit EASILY into one of those pockets and the officer wouldn't have any idea. And there are much smaller guns and weapons out there.
Is it likely that the guy standing in the middle of the parking lot is armed AND ready to use it? No, but on the same token it very well is possible and very simple requests like 'take your hands out of your pocket' are very reasonable and there has to be a certain amount of authority to back that up (i.e. it has to be a legal requirement and not just a kind request).
It's not a citizen's duty to cooperate. We have rights, or at least we're supposed to. A cop has no right to arrest me because I won't take my hands out of my pockets. He has no right to arrest me because somebody pointed a finger at me. He has no right to arrest me for any combination of those two. At what point did not cooperating itself become a crime? This has become an enormous meme in our society. We're supposed to have rights to tell cops to fuck off unless they have actual evidence to arrest us, but instead everybody thinks that cops opinions are now judge and juryQuote:
Originally Posted by Lukie
The video has got to be staged. If it was real, an attorney would get an enormous settlement for the guy who did nothing
Not sure if this is the exact dog one I'm thinking of because there are more than one, but it worksQuote:
All these are significantly different events. Post videos of all of them and I'll give my honest critique. I very well might agree with your take on all of them.
YouTube - Police shoot family dog during 'felony stop'
Only heard of this one because it was local. The settlement was just to cover his life of medical fees now. Also, this is paralysis. So it's much much much worse than most bad things that happen to humans
10 Million from King County for paralyzed man - MyNorthwest.com
The Bart shooting. We had a thread about it over a year ago
YouTube - Bart Police shooting in Oakland KTVU report
There are sooooooooo many video examples of these kinds of things, but they usually piss me off so much that when I find a source I stop watching them all within minutes
How loose are we supposed to make the definition of "suspect". We're to the point where a cop can justify almost anything now. There's a reason laws are trying to be passed that would make it illegal to film law enforcement
We live in a country with dwindling rights, excessive manufactured crime, and abundant enforcement abuses. It's not a coincidence that our prison population dwarfs other modernized nations per capita. Same with brutality and innocents framed
He disobeyed a command he has the right to disobey. In fact, we're supposed to have the right to disobey much much more than simply keeping our hands in our pockets, but a society that prides itself on its crime and brutality strips those rights.Quote:
I don't have any idea as to whether or not it was staged.
I don't agree with the bolded though. The guy did not get arrested or taken down because someone said he was in a fight, but rather because he disobeyed a very simple command related to the officer's safety at least 4 times .
A man on a street with a finger pointing at him whom the cop did not witness doing anything. At what point did this become probable cause for suspicion? If this is now probable cause, at what point are we going to further abuse ourselves by broadening the definition and strengthening police authoritarianism and, say, let them consider being out at night probable cause? I mean, c'mon, most crime happens at night, right? Bingo, probable cause. The guy with his hands in his pockets *could* be hiding a weapon, well the guy on the street at night *could* be a do-no-gooder. Tackle his assQuote:
Originally Posted by Lukie
Regardless of the interpretation of these things, there must be reasoning. For the last several decades our reasoning has consistently gravitated away from the innocent until proven guilty theme
There's just so little violence in Finland compared to the US. In America I would guess that bystanders would be happy to see the police solve the situation quickly. In Finland they would mostly be thinking "please don't hurt that poor angry guy".
Here's an interesting comparison (number of prison inmates):
USA: 2 300 000 or 0.75% of total population
Finland: 3 500 or 0.06% of total population
The officer has a reasonable suspicion that a crime (perhaps battery) was committed and that allows him to detain the guy in the parking lot for a short time. The officer is absolutely in his rights to make minor requests for his safety and that includes demanding that he take his hands out of his pockets and even allows him to do a pat down for weapons.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
But he doesn't have the right to disobey that command. If the officer would have instead asked him to EMPTY his pockets (similar to being searched), you would be right.Quote:
He disobeyed a command he has the right to disobey. In fact, we're supposed to have the right to disobey much much more than simply keeping our hands in our pockets, but a society that prides itself on its crime and brutality strips those rights.
The officer doesn't need probable cause to briefly detain someone and pat them down or similarQuote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
Again, how could the officer have better handled the situation? (Or, rather, how would you have handled it?)
blast his ass
I understand that
It's bad stuff in a similar way that bankers have changed the laws in such a way that they can commit the exact kind of fraud that used to put them in prison
ugh, sorry eric, I tend to lump all the posts together and respond to the lump. I also tend to switch from responding to a specific person to making comments about society as a whole. Sorry for the confusion.
fuck the police but goddamn fuck jumping people with little sticks instead of busting a cap in their ass too
Don't be such a baby, it's only like a couple degrees negative.....fahrenheit. :/Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
5 Day Weather Forecast and Conditions for Helsinki
On the other hand:
EIU Media Directory
#6!
So what's it like to live somewhere consistently cold? I remember a cold snap here where it was -10*C in the daytime and -15*C in the nighttime and it was pretty tolerable, but I couldn't imagine a whole winter of something even colder..
I mean excessive force versus pussy force aside, I'm not quite sure that I understand why the one poliisi seemed intent on slapping him on the leg whenever he let his guard down. but iunno maybe that would've had me crying like a bitch and this guy was on crystal meth or so (except for how he didn't charge the police and kill them)
Helsinki isn't that cold at all. Some winters we have hardly any snow even. Here's monthly averages for the winter:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash256
Nov +1.4C (29F)
Dec -2,2C (28F)
Jan -4.2C (24F)
Feb -4.9C (23F)
Mar -1.5C (29F)
Apr +3.3C (26F)
July is warmest at +17.2C (63F).
Northern Finland is much colder but that's very sparsely populated.
those temps don't seem so bad, but the warmest month average at 63f sounds shitty. I like hot summers.
Well I guess Finland is only a little colder than W.Wash. They say I have seasonal affective disorder (it's true in some sense), and I'm still planning on moving to Texas largely for a pick up in temp
I'm like an inner black guy. Hate the cold, jungle fever, can run real fast
Ah right, because I saw this and thought it applied for a lot of winter:
Helsinki weather forecast - Met Office
Are you guys having a particularly cold snap then?
Indeed we are. Last week was the coldest week for 50 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash256
I bet you socialists would like some of our sweet capitalism-induced global warming.Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketfours