Operation: Fish

[Luco]

So I finally decided to start up a blog. I think writing down my session reviews for all the world to see will help to make me a better player. This blog is entirely for my own benefit but if you feel you have something to add, then by all means drop a post.

For those who don't know already, I single table. I was playing at $20nl in March, but all through April I've been on one long breakeven stretch at 10 man SnGs (curse the 20% rake). All of a sudden FR looks very tempting again.

This weekend marked my return to FR. I decided to ease myself back in gently and started at $10nl and boy am I glad I did. Those non stop multi-tabling SnGs destroyed my post-flop edge. For some reason I was struggling to break out of tourney mode, and ended up losing a few buy-ins because of it. I found myself overvaluing TPTK (-$6), thinking shoves are bluffs (-$4), marrying top pf hands like KK and AA (-$15), plus a couple of coolers (but we don't care about those). I was happy with my play overall and quite pleased with how narrow I got some of my ranges, but I really need to learn to fold good hands again. I would watch my stack grow little by little as I eke out my advantage against the $10nl tards, then WHAM walk right into something that (in hindsight) was actually pretty avoidable and lose a chunk. The thing is that most people at $10nl play so completely face up that it should be simple, yet I found myself calling a shove on a JJx board because duh I has teh aycees, or calling an UTG limp-3bet-5bet because duh I has teh keengs. Letting you all see this idiocy should help me never to do it again though.

The point for me to take way from this: there is no spoon. Crappy line from the Matrix I know, but those hands I should have got away from felt like a bullet in my side, and as soon as I can remember that it's not the spoon I'm trying to bend, but myself, I can start doing this again:


Will stick at $10nl till I can shake off SnG mode, it's just cheaper that way. Tonight should be better though - these leaks are easily plugged, they just happen to be really expensive ones.

/session

[Luco]

Only played about 100 hands, but ran better. Hit a blip early on with QQ, made a bad call and lost 28bbs to a flush, but woke up after that and made it back.

Finished up about 3bbs, could have been more but the point of the night was learning to fold good hands and I did that. That's not to say I folded the best hand, I got value from 3rd pair on one occasion and king high(!) on another. Starting to remember why I FR.

The top hands play themselves, my poker bread and butter comes from (no particular order):
1/ stealing blinds
2/ making good bluffs
3/ spotting bad bluffs from villains
4/ getting value from marginal hands

I seem to do these things pretty well. It's good to be back at FR, but no more poker now until Thursday night, taking some study days before the 2,000 man $20k Freeroll. I got 98th last month, going for a new high score this time.

Session pointer: Learn to fold top pre-flop hands (still). I can dance rings around any iPoker $10nl player post-flop, but I'll be terminally breaking even until I can stop marrying my monsters.

As an aside I've been using HEM on trial and it's pretty neat. I really like the HUD and the fact that it shows mucked hands immediately after a showdown. Once I've memorised what order the stats run in I can actually start to apply them, the only ones affecting my decisions atm are VPIP/pfr/hands. Seriously considering a purchase once the trial expires.

/session

[Vinland]

The top hands play themselves, my poker bread and butter comes from (no particular order):
1/ stealing blinds
2/ making good bluffs
3/ spotting bad bluffs from villains
4/ getting value from marginal hands

what do you consider marginal hands? TP? or less?

I have a problem spotting bad bluffs at 2nl. I believe they dont happen often, but then its tough to say b/c you dont get to see their cards after you fold.
What sort of things do you look for to spot a bluff?

[Luco]

what do you consider marginal hands? TP? or less?

Against a 36/3, TPGK is a 'good' hand. Against a 10/9, TPTK is often marginal. Mid PPs with an over on the flop are a good example of a marginal hand too. They are easier to play in position, and a lot easier against tighter players (smaller range pre flop makes it much easier to know where you are post flop). OOP against a tight player sometimes you have to check the flop - if they will only call a c-bet with hands that beat you, then there's no point taking down a dry flop when you could induce a bluff on the flop or turn and gain a few bb's in the process. The more draws on the board though, the more you should be inclined to bet. Against stations and floaters, c-bet away. Crucial to playing these marginal hands is your opponents' tendencies, and the following thought:
"If they will only call with hands that beat you, don't bet. If they will call with worse, then bet."
Of course sometimes you'll want to take the pot down right there, so it's all situational.

I have a problem spotting bad bluffs at 2nl. I believe they dont happen often, but then its tough to say b/c you dont get to see their cards after you fold.
What sort of things do you look for to spot a bluff?

Well, floating c-bets is a good way to start. Lots of people just can't seem to fire that turn barrel. Ranging your opponent down every street will help a lot, and one of the $2nl classics is people will bluff small (minbets or 2xbb) and value bet big, helping you spot the difference with ease. Still others will do it the other way round, just look out for it.
Again, tighter players are far easier to spot because their starting range is so much smaller. If someone running at 16/14 opens from MP2 and you call from CO, flop comes 993 rainbow and they c-bet, a re-raise here can be a good move because the chances that they've caught 9's, treys, or an overpair is so small against their range (22-AA, A10s+, Ajo+). Can't do it too often or they'll catch on, but that's just one example I can think of.
Watch for people who will auto-bet IP if checked to, and often loose-passive fish preflop will bluff too much post-flop. Pick up on these tendencies, each fish is unique but they can all be trained to jump through your hoops.

I'll drop in some bad bluff HHs on my next post.

[Vinland]

Mid PPs with an over on the flop are a good example of a marginal hand too. They are easier to play in position, and a lot easier against tighter players (smaller range pre flop makes it much easier to know where you are post flop). OOP against a tight player sometimes you have to check the flop - if they will only call a c-bet with hands that beat you, then there's no point taking down a dry flop when you could induce a bluff on the flop or turn and gain a few bb's in the process. The more draws on the board though, the more you should be inclined to bet.

I'm a bit confused. I cbet quite a bit (90% of the time but small sample size) because I play tight ie. not a lot of hands (about 11 VPIP). If I'm up against a tight player with say 99 and the board comes 4,8,Q rainbow....I always cbet. I agree the only hands he calls with are hands that beat me but there are so few of them that he would hold, wouldnt he fold most of the time? If the flop was something like X,K,Q then yes....I put the breaks on.

there's no point taking down a dry flop when you could induce a bluff on the flop or turn and gain a few bb's in the process

But if they are tight players, how do you know its a bluff? If we dont want to cbet them, why would we be more willing to call a bet on the turn from them?

This is an area that I'm trying to work on.....I know I cbet too much b/c I dont know where to pick my spots well. I dont like cbetting total call stations b/c if after the flop I have say AQo and the flop is 3,6,T with 2 suited, I have a hard time putting him on a range if he calls me. If he's a station he'll call w/ his pair of 6's or 3's, he'll call with any FD. If the 3rd suit hits I'm at a loss. If he holds something stupid like J6, well he still beats my A high...

There's just so much to learn.....its fun but overwhelming. I look at what I knew 6 months ago and I laugh.....hopefully I can laugh in another 6 months at what I know now....and Im doing great at 2nl...

[Luco]

I'm a bit confused. I cbet quite a bit (90% of the time but small sample size) because I play tight ie. not a lot of hands (about 11 VPIP). If I'm up against a tight player with say 99 and the board comes 4,8,Q rainbow....I always cbet. I agree the only hands he calls with are hands that beat me but there are so few of them that he would hold, wouldnt he fold most of the time? If the flop was something like X,K,Q then yes....I put the breaks on.

You gain 9.5bbs if he folds on a dry flop, not a terrible thing at all and often the correct play. But with weak-tights they will check behind this flop if they miss and have a stab on the turn if you check again, or even the river (yeah that's a really believable line...). Missed overs are drawing to 6 outs, underpairs to just 2, so more often than not they won't catch a thing and you'll catch an extra bet, although I rarely check both flop and turn. I guess I'm just experimenting with something Sklansky said about allowing your opponents to play incorrectly, I just hope I'm doing it right. Once again, not to be attempted on drawy boards. But the thing is with a typical weak-tight player they'll only bet that flop if they had the Q, and if they had the Q they wouldn't fold to your c-bet anyway. If they would bet the flop without a Q, this is where floating has advantages (3rd bullet syndrome).

But if they are tight players, how do you know its a bluff? If we dont want to cbet them, why would we be more willing to call a bet on the turn from them?

This is an area that I'm trying to work on.....I know I cbet too much b/c I dont know where to pick my spots well. I dont like cbetting total call stations b/c if after the flop I have say AQo and the flop is 3,6,T with 2 suited, I have a hard time putting him on a range if he calls me. If he's a station he'll call w/ his pair of 6's or 3's, he'll call with any FD. If the 3rd suit hits I'm at a loss. If he holds something stupid like J6, well he still beats my A high...

There's just so much to learn.....its fun but overwhelming. I look at what I knew 6 months ago and I laugh.....hopefully I can laugh in another 6 months at what I know now....and Im doing great at 2nl...

How do we know it's a bluff? Reads, reads, reads. It's not worth even attempting against a totally honest player (check-check-check oh damn I should have just taken it at the flop), or a looser player, because their range is a lot wider (not often anyway, read the board and make a judgement call). There is a special type of nit that will check behind the flop, maybe even turn, and stab at the river thinking you're weak. These are the ones from whom you can make an extra 20bbs a night. It also has the side-effect of turning them honest against you afterwards. God I hope I've explained myself here, I'll be back on ftr tomorrow with some hh's to show what I mean and some example villains/textures where this is a good play.

[HarleyGuy13]

Good luck to you.

[dranger7070]

You Lucofish, just seen ur OP on here. I'll be sticking my nose in from time to time. Good luck dude!

[Luco]

Thanks HarleyGuy, Dranger, much appreciated.

I said I wouldn’t play, but I did. Last night was interesting, played about 120 hands. It started well when I stumbled upon a table with 4 LP fish on it. One of them was added to my buddy list within 15 hands, along with the notes "dream fish, will call to river w 3rd pair". Then inevitably the fish busted out and I ended up OOP against two regs who took their place. At this point I usually move tables, but as my session was nearing the end I stuck around, and pretty much broke even from there almost until I left. I had history with these two and I knew I could take them, thankfully I got the opportunity. HH converter isn’t working, but long story short I ran KK into TT, JJ and QQ at the same time, busting out 3 people and taking a $25.76 pot. Happy days.

I am absolutely loving HEM. I was worried that it would distract me from my soulreading or something but actually it’s totally wicked bad awwsumm. I still take plenty of notes on players and I still work on my ranges all the way to the river, but I have definitely taken down a few pots based on the HUD stats that I may not have done without it. This program will surely pay for itself long term.

/session

Vinland, apologies if this is hard to read but here’s one from last night:

***** Hand History for Game 1582540515 *****
$10.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, April 28, 08:12:19 ET 2009
Table Freirina (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Seat 1: MP3 ( $2.93 USD )
Seat 2: CO ( $2.00 USD )
Seat 3: Hero ( $9.70 USD )
Seat 4: SB ( $2.90 USD )
Seat 5: BB ( $10.11 USD )
Seat 6: UTG ( $10.56 USD )
Seat 9: MP1 ( $10.45 USD )
Seat 10: MP2 ( $1.54 USD )
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ T T ]
UTG calls [$0.10 USD] (2 folds)
MP3 raises [$0.40 USD] (1 fold)
Hero calls [$0.40 USD] (3 folds)
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9, 6, K ]
MP3 checks
Hero checks
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2 ]
MP3 bets [$0.60 USD]
Hero raises [$1.50 USD]
MP3 folds
Hero wins $3.05 USD from main pot

To be honest this isn’t a stunning play, for a few reasons. Firstly, your opponent will draw out on you for free approximately 1/8th of the time with missed overs and 1/23 of the time with lower pp’s. Second, the most +ev thing to do on this flop is c-bet if there’s practically any chance (say 25%) they will float their overs here. Many villains will fold to a $0.50 bet (52% of pot) but float a $0.45 bet (47% of pot), so try that first. Third, your opponent needs to bet this turn at least half pot half the time (minimum) to make this more +ev than just taking the flop (because we need to compensate for the times that they catch on the turn and we fold). Fourth, it has to be a rainbow flop with no likely SD given their range. Fifth, you have to be fairly confident in your read that you’re not up against a slow played set. Finally, if they check the turn you have to bet regardless. Short stacks are good for this play, there’s usually one at every table who will shove this turn when his overs miss and you check behind, and then it suddenly becomes much more +ev than c-betting the flop. As a guide, I get the chance to try this once every 100 hands or so, but it’s certainly good for keeping the villains on the back foot.

And for the record, my cbet % is 80ish so don't worry that you're doing it too much.

[sil693]

why are you turning your hand into a bluff?

[Luco]

what would you have done here? I'm here to learn, but you need to teach...

And surely this is a value raise, not a bluff? I've turned the villain's hand into a bluff, not mine...

[Muzzard]

And surely this is a value raise, not a bluff?

If villian cannot call with a worse hand than TT, then this is a bluff.

[Luco]

So what's your line here Muzzard? A face-up weaktard checks to you here and will fold to any flop bet, so how would you get value? Is flatting the turn a better option? Just take the pot on the flop? What's the most +++ev thing to do here?

[Muzzard]

I'm not saying it is a bluff, if u think he can call with less than TT. depends on reads stats. I'd probably call/call if I think he cant call a raise with less.

[Luco]

I'm raising because in my experience (and I've run variations on this line) they won't bluff again on the river like ever, therefore that one turn bet is all I'll get from them. The only difference in money for me is that by flatting, 1 in 8 times I lose the pot but by raising, I take it down every time. Flawed logic?

As I've already said, this line has the most eevees when your only options on the turn are call or fold (short-stacked shove monkeys).

It's cool how one of the hardly-used bullets in my poker machine gun has come under scrutiny. Will have to put some more standard villains & HH's in here too, see if they get the same response

[Muzzard]

If he folds everything u beat when you raise and calls only when he's ahead what is the point in raising.

[Luco]

Read my last post, the one that starts "I'm raising because..." but yes, I could do this line with atc...

Won't be putting in another cash session till the weekend, but I'll update this on Friday with my MTT results.

[Muzzard]

Read my last post, the one that starts "I'm raising because..."

yes I've read it. That's why I responded.

First you need to decide whether ur raising for value, he can call with less than TT or rasing as a bluff he can't call with less than TT.

If bluff then it's pointless as you have sd value. If value its fine.

[Luco]

I'll flat and hope they call a small value bet on the river with their ace high whenever this villain type, board texture and opportunity comes up again. I'm pretty sure c-betting them off the flop is less eevee than keeping them in the hand though. Thanks for the contribution

I'm glad I started a blog. squeezing eevees out of hands.

[Luco]

So I’ve been looking through my HH’s on HEM. I found out that I was running at 48%VPIP when I first started playing cash games. Thank god I’m not so nitty anymore...

I also looked through my poker notes and found the very first starting hand chart I wrote, it goes a long way to explaining my VPIP%. Way too much emphasis on sooted cards, but unsuited connectors are on there too as a late opener. Some hilarious points:
- Call a 3bet with AKs but not AKo
- Call a 3bet with Kxs but not QQ
- Jxs/Txs is on there as a late opener
- Axs is ranked higher than AQo

[Luco]

Got my aces cracked with over 800 people left

Was gonna join the ftr money added afterwards but it's on so damn late...

[Luco]

Bank holiday weekend was nice. Firstly, I started reading two new poker books – Professional No Limit (PNL) and NLHE Theory & Practice (TaP). Both books had some good points, some awesome points, and some pretty bad points.

PNL: Good book and well worth a read, however two sections concerned me. The REM section (Range, Equity, Maximise) failed to account for future betting, which was strange. I would have called it SIR EM (Stack sizes, Implied odds, Range, Equity, Maximise) but what do I know, eh?
Also, this whole thing about SPR confused me. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but to hit your ‘target’ SPR with a hand like AQ, AJ, KQ, you would need to either a/ buy in less than full (40-60 BBs) or b/ bet larger pre flop. If you bought in for the standard 100BBs and got dealt AQo, you’d have to raise 10BBs to hit your target SPR of around 5, or minraise to hit an SPR of around 20 (which the book says is also an acceptable SPR for a TP hand). I honestly feel like I missed the train on this one because a lot of people on the forum seem to love the SPR concept, but the fact that this section implies that you should use non-standard PFR’s or buy in shallower worries me. Maybe I’ll make a BC thread on this and find out where I’m going wrong.
Having said that, on the whole this book is great. The sections on pot commitment and planning the whole hand before you even VPIP are thorough and detailed. I will be reading this book more than once.

TaP: Whoa, what a mess. I’m an accountant and even I got lost in some of the maths they were laying out. This is widely regarded as one of the best dedicated NL books out there, but I’ll warn you that it feels like a Where’s Waldo book on more than one occasion, as you sift through a sea of (IMO largely pointless) numbers to get to the point they were making. However when you do eventually find Waldo you can mug him and you’ll find out that he’s got a wallet stuffed with money.
I have issues with just about everything they wrote about pre-flop strategy though. I mean, this book actually has a starting hand chart in it for one. As well as this, Sklansky goes on to say that the industry standard ‘4xBB+1 for every limper’ is troublesome and in some cases just wrong (I smell controversy), saying that you should raise by whatever the hell you feel like, just mix it up 20% of the time to keep the villains guessing. The example given advocates open limping(!) many hands, 3xBB for the next ‘group’, and 6xBB for the top hands. I will run some numbers on it, but the starting hands and raises they outlined looked borderline loose-passive when I read it, certainly far looser than anyone on ftr would advise. I have been thinking about this a lot, and I’m certain that this sort of strategy could kill any poker player that wasn’t capable of adjusting very, very quickly. If I ever saw someone at a table using this strategy I’d raise every limp and 3bet every 3xBB and eventually force them out of playing that way. Maybe it was meant for deep stack poker but at 100BBs, I could rip it apart.
Just like PNL though, there is plenty of +ev in this book. My comments here have focused on the negative but I can assure you that I was mostly impressed by both these books.

In other news, I have moved down to $2nl for the month of May. Not because I suck, although I do suck, but that’s not why I moved down. I have finally started multitabling!

While I feel like I could make more single tabling $10 & $20nl short term, long term the eevees are in running more than one table at a time. On Saturday I fired up 4 tables at $2nl and got to work, it was hella fun. Despite consistently getting my money in as favourite (except for a set over set) I finished down over 300BBs, but it’s far too small a sample to make a judgement so I’ll be running a whole month this way to see how it goes. There were a couple of moments where I had good pf hands on 3 of the 4 tables and it got a bit hectic, but on the whole I felt that I could comfortably run with four tables without getting lost. Will up it to $5nl in June, there’s no rush.

/session

P.S. If you disagree with my comments about the two books please tell me, as stated I really feel like I missed the point in a couple of places.

[Luco]

Ohh Emm Gee $2nl. I ran card dead for 70 minutes out of 90 and still hit 80bb/100 overall. Feckin idiots.

Session notes to myself:
- Stop going for so many c/r's oop. It's $2nl dammit, just bet.
- Start building the pot earlier with strong draws, a few times you've had too much left on the river.
- Start incorporating the HUD stats into your multitable play. Let crap hands on other tables fold themselves out if you have to, just make sure you're paying attention in the hands that matter.
- Contact Titan and complain loudly about how their lack of a 'preferred seating' option is messing with your HUD.
- Tweak the HUD positions for optimal performance.

Gotta love BB specials. Hitting quads with 38o and stacking a full house =

[hopeful]

I hated PNL, i really thought the SPR straegy was poor. The idea of raising enough pre so that you can happliy commit post just seems stupid to me. I did try it on a couple of tables and still remember getting stacked for 100Euros when AK ran in to AA and when AQ ran in to TT with QT3 flop. I dont think i will ever play like that again. (god these hands were over 12mths ago and I still remember)

I guess if you were a shortstacker it might be better, the maths certainly would be better. Its just not for me.

[Luco]

Give me EBP (exploitable betting pattern) over SPR anyday.

[Keith]

not sure that you need to drop down a level. I went through 2nl playing 2 tables , 5nl playing 2 or 3 tables and now playing 10nl at 2 or 3 tables. Part of it I think is to be able to understand the play of your opponents and just dropping down to jump straight up to 4 tables means that you won't be understanding the play of your next level up if you go straight in at 4 or tables.Just build the number of tables up 1 at a time as you get comfortable playing that number of tables.
Ok , so I play a laggy game so I do need to concentrate on the hands I'm playing whereas nitting it up makes it easier to play more tables. I'm wondering though whether my laggy approach means that I'm having to learn post flop play a lot more which should help in the long run.

[Luco]

Thanks keith, you're not the first person who's said that.

Rest assured I'll be on the first flight out of donktown as soon as I've got it together. Playing 2 tables at $10nl is certainly worth considering and it may well be what I settle on before the month is out, but I haven't logged enough hours at 4 tabling to call it a sample yet. Once I've logged a good #hands running 4 I'll review and see if it's a table too many.

[Luco]

Operation: fish is on standby for a week or so.

Just as well really, the last couple of sessions were spewwwww. Gonna use the time away from the game to study instead, and hopefully come back stronger.

[Luco]

Came back to the tables on Friday and kicked ass. Stunning reads, bluffs, and overall solid play. Tried to repeat my success on Saturday and spewed away a chunk of Friday's takings. My session review notes have revealed a massive leak - stacking off with two pair. Gonna scale it back a bit sans a good read, the risk/reward with two pair is too high for shoving every time. Interestingly, if I had folded the flop with every two pair hand for the last 5 sessions (4 of which have been losers) I would have been up 4 out of 5 sessions. But more specifically it's raising big on the river for value with two pair. I hardly ever get called by worse, so it's got to stop.

As an aside, on Sunday I got to do something on Titan that Stars doesn't have - a ten cent 10 man SnG. I thought I'd dropped into the mad hatter's tea party, all lolbiscuits and roflcakes. To sum it up in three words: "wow, bluff much?"

The guy who got second was the only other person that didn't bluff shove. I won more chips with 2nd pair than I did with stronger hands, check/check/call and bye bye donkey. Nobody caught on to it either (except the guy who got 2nd). I don't think I'll play another ten center (unless I'm too drunk for real poker) though, it was almost farcical.

Finished up for the weekend though, so it's good to be back.

[Luco]

Played a 30 man MTT last night and got 8th because I was too tight for too long.

I was bashing heads with the $20nl regs in March and doing great (as of yet I haven't seen a single person on iPoker that worries me at any stake), but now I'm down at $2nl and slowly dying. It's not variance, but I'm losing confidence and it's compounding the issue somewhat. It feels like there's something fundamental that I'm missing but I can't see what it is.

I'll be putting some mannies into stars this week, so I'd love to sit with a fellow grinder and hopefully get some discussion about my game going. Anyone will do regardless of skill level, I'm a eurozone player and I play in the evenings. I just need a figure to bounce ideas off of. I'm going to stay at $2nl until I can feel really happy about my game again. Playing solid poker >>> building a roll.

[Luco]

I had an epiphany while I was driving home from work last night; unfortunately I was so busy at home that I only got around 45 minutes to play poker with. It was long enough though.

Back to single-tabling $20nl, it’s where I belong and it’s where I will stay. There’s no point in trying to compensate for my lack of poker time by playing more tables, in the same why that you can’t make up for a day’s losses by moving up stakes. There are going to be some months where I won’t even get 1k hands in and it sucks, but life comes first.

Adding more tables really hurt my game. I think in a few months I’ll be ready to open one extra table at my current steaks, but when playing 4 tables I was playing the cards in front of me and little else. I got to snap off a few obvious bluffs here and there but on the whole I just lost focus. I played TAG when multitabling, but I’m a LAG at heart

Most importantly, I got my confidence back. Calling a raise with ATC knowing it’s a profitable move is hawt. It’s these sort of super reads that I really missed

[Vinland]

I like your single tabling idea to start. I wont go to a single table but I have cut back on the 4 I did for a while at 2nl and am doing 2 or 3.
I found I was on autopilot esp with HEM. I noticed who was limp/calling, who was raising etc but I rarely paid attention to the actual bets they made and what they meant.
One of the important things I am finding is to see what kind of bets they make or call and see the corresponding hand they show down with.

I dont bluff much esp b/c its tough to at 2nl. At 5nl I am hoping to start on selective opponents who seem really passive post flop.
I just hate when I pick the wrong time to reraise when I think the flop completely misses them, they lead out and I reraise and they immediately reraise me/shove... But I'm sure I'll start to see some spots for it, I have a lot of time to go in 5nl.

[Luco]

Sometimes a flat call on the flop IP is better than a raise, especially if it's more in line with what you 'may' have hit on the flop.

Slow & steady is the word for operation fish. I made an awesome soul read where I folded TPTK to a c-bet, it came out a little faster and a little bigger than usual and somehow I just felt that I wasn't good. Luckily there was a 3rd man in the pot so I got proved right instead of being left to wonder.

Also, fuck AK. Fuck it with a goddamn burning rake. Out of the last 25 times I've been dealt AK it's paired the flop twice, and I often don't know wtf to do from there, especially in a 3bet pot.

Here's one from the weekend (no HUD on):

iPoker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (9 handed) - iPoker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero ($22.24)
UTG+1 ($9.70)
MP1 ($19.88)
MP2 ($23.30)
MP3 ($19.70)
CO ($12.82)
Button ($20.80)
SB ($20.52)
BB ($20.10)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K, A
Preflop:
Hero bets $0.80, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.80, 3 folds, Button calls $0.80, 2 folds

Flop: ($2.70) 4, 5, Q (3 players)
Hero?

My table image was LAGish at this point, I'd been running over some nits post flop and hit a run of the right hole cards in the right positions.

MP1 was a loose passive fish. Never raised ever, would check behind with top pair and shit. 95% certain to call any bet I put out on this flop and I'd have no idea whether he was chasing a draw or if he'd hit a pair. I'd seen him call a flop bet with nothing but a backdoor straight so I reckoned to be coinflip against his range at this point, but value betting would feel wierd with no pair. A check against this fish seems right.

Button was the standard weak-tight nit, showed some positional awareness, for that reason I figured Ax hands were less likely due to my utg raise, so was probably setmining. Huge chance he'll fold to 1/2 pot bet here.

MP1 suggests a check, Button needs a bet, what to do?

If anyone has any general advice on how to deal with a missed AK in a big pot, please drop by as it's something I really need to work on, thanks.

[xpaand]

Just finished reading your OP. Sucks you got on a bad roll. I just got off mine (I think). I guess you reconsidered your idea of moving down to the micro's. If you're down, we could sweat each other (that sounds so homo ) Boo, Lockpull and I have been doing that and it's been great. However, I think your knowledge of the game surpasses mine, but I guess it helps having an outsider view your play.

Let me know and I'll definitely be following your OP from now on.

[Luco]

Sounds great, I'll let you know as soon as I've opened a stars account (will be very soon). Any ideas for a username? I'm considering:

SpecialPatrolGroup (if you've never seen the Young Ones you won't get this)
SpedBus
OopsIFarted
CntSpellPoaker

... you get the idea.

[daven]

just read your op cos i realised you're luco from irc (i guess?)

ok. To learn to play more tables:
1) open up 10 play money tables
2) play one hour
3) open up two cash tables at one stake lower than normal
4) ???
5) profit

also, have you got mikogo/skype setup?

I think even the most ardent of the "HUDs are evil and multi-tabling limits your poker development" zealots would argue against 1-tabling full ring. A sweat session may sort that out, i could play 4 tables for a little bit perhaps? then switch back to you playing 2 or 3 at $5nl?

you say you play european times - where you based?

[Vinland]

HU4penneez.....I like it...

[Luco]

Yes, it’s Luco from IRC.

I like the idea of overdoing it then scaling back, that sounds like a fun way to adjust. Will give it a shot.

No Mikogo or skype, I assume they’re some sort of VOIP type thing? Broadband in the UK is made up of hotspots (2-8mb) and notspots (0.2-2mb) and some days I’m lucky to get 0.7mb/s where I live. Obviously it’s more than enough for IRC, Online gaming etc, but web browsing can test your patience and I’ve never considered adding skype or the like as a result. If it’s essential to the sweat I’ll pick one up.

I’ve been spending a lot of this week practicing ranges, looking through HH’s and trying to guess my villain’s holding. It’s easy to do when you have all the time in the world to debate and reason over it, but in real time it doesn’t always work that way. June will be ranges month for me, so I will bend all of my study and actual poker towards the one goal of narrowing ranges down every street.

I’ve also been looking at some articles on the psychology of game playing. Check out www.sirlin.net and read his ‘playing to win’ article. I also read through a fascinating article from the New Yorker about David Vs Goliath. History has shown that whenever David tries to fight Goliath on Goliath’s terms, David is instantly a 70/30 underdog. However, if David plays within the scope of the rules but on his own terms and in his own way, he becomes a 65/35 favourite. Had our biblical shepherd gone out, touched swords with goliath and fought him toe to toe, he would have lost. Instead he played to his strengths and threw a rock at the sucka, beating goliath in a way that he knew best.

It got me thinking about how this applies to the way we play poker. Whenever you watch a villain’s betting pattern you get to understand their rules of engagement. Everyone has a way that they like to do things, a way they like to play certain hands, and so do you. Whenever you are taken out of that comfort zone your play will suffer, and the same is true for your opponents. If you know your villain has a low 3 and 4 bet % and a high fold to 3bet %, bully and poke and bet until they are forced into raising back at you light, and suddenly they’re playing on your terms. There’s many, many more examples of what people aren’t comfortable with. Playing weaker hands for stacks for example. Bluffing down three streets. Raising a PSB. Some villains like to be the bus driver and control the whole table, and don’t like it any other way. Others don’t know how to react to an overbet. I’m talking about intentionally tilting your opponents to induce profit, and why not?

More important than pushing your villains out of their comfort zone is playing within yours. Find the things you’re good at, the elements of poker that you feel are your best, and play to them. For a lot of new players, pre-flop is their biggest strength and they tend to play a bit fit-or-fold post flop. One way to play to this strength is to buy in short and play shove/fold poker.
Perhaps you feel that aggression is one of your strong points. Perhaps you could find nittier tables instead of loose/passive ones, and run everyone over with bluff after bluff.

Just as important is to know your weaknesses. If you ever feel uncomfortable with any hand, make a note and study it later. Try to find out what it was that pushed you into that territory. Did the villain’s raise surprise you? Perhaps the turn card threw you off? Get the HH’s, get them on ftr and get help.

If you can do whatever you can to a/ play to your strengths and b/ put your villain into weak territory, you’re already favourite before the cards are even dealt.

[Vinland]

I’ve been spending a lot of this week practicing ranges, looking through HH’s and trying to guess my villain’s holding. It’s easy to do when you have all the time in the world to debate and reason over it, but in real time it doesn’t always work that way. June will be ranges month for me, so I will bend all of my study and actual poker towards the one goal of narrowing ranges down every street.

Stupid question, how do you practice hand ranges? I could look at a HH but if I dont know what his holdings are...could I not be way off on my guessing and never know?

[Luco]

Yep. You could be thinking 'weak ace' when actually he's got a royal flush, and you'd never know. That's not what i'm looking for though, I'm looking at the VPIP and the board and thinking 'what hands is he checking behind the flop with here' 'what hands is he flat calling 2 streets with' 'he bet the flop and c/f'd the turn, what range of hands could he do that with'. It's not about the 2 actual cards that they may have had, it's more about seeing how fish (and regs) play poker. In general you're discounting hands as you progress down each street, but I'm happy if I can get it down to a handful of cards rather than a specific two.

I start by looking at any hand where I got a bit lost, then pull up my entire history on the villain in question. Sometimes this can be a little, sometimes a lot, but there's always something you can learn or guess. From hands that wtsd and VPIP%, I can start to form a picture of what hands they like to play and how they like to play them. Then I start looking at hands where they've folded and hands where they've taken the pot before showdown, and see what else I can pick up on, before finally coming full circle back to the hand in question and having another guess.

TBH I have a lot of work to do with ranges though, so yeah it's going to be a long hard month while I get this shit down. I'll be happy once I can apply it in real time without breaking a sweat, but who knows how far away that could be?

[Luco]

Should have my stars account open by Sunday. Will deposit small and grind up from $2nl on stars, I think I need it.

Also, a quick thankyou to everyone on the forums and in IRC that has given me their time, patience and experience time and again, it really is appreciated.

[Luco]

Saturday: Put $16 (£10) on stars, insta-lost $6 trying to bluff the fish. Turned off pc and hated myself for trying to play $2nl like it's $20nl. After some expert advice I decided my VPIP was too high.

Sunday: had an hour free at the end of the evening, loaded up 4 tables for 100bbs each and played proper $2nl nit poker. Stars is incredibly slow, like 25 h/hr slow. I stopped just short of 100 hands, but had made back $3.50 of the previous night's spew. Current stars roll is $13.70 ish, but I'm happy that I've got a good game plan for the future. Aiming for 8% to 11% vpip over the next few weeks, LRN2NIT lol.

[Vinland]

You forgot how to play in the fish barrel mr. highroller??

Yeah, PS is slow....4 tables shouldnt be a problem, I played at about 11-12 VPIP and that worked out nice...It depends on the table of course...If my cbets were folded often then I had closer to 12-14 VPIP as I was willinf to open up more and nittier tables I played 7-10 VPIP especially if my cbets were floated often...

[Keith]

Isn't sticking 10£ on a waste of the first deposit bonus?. granted its 50$ max , but thats only 33£ , gives you a bit of a cushion for starting 2NL , and gets yoiu that much closer to $100 where you can move up to 5NL.
Also does that allow you to get into the reload freerolls that are starting today, may be a quick way to boost your stars roll.

[Luco]

You forgot how to play in the fish barrel mr. freetroller??

FYP lol
And my god it was ugly, vinland. I sucked bad.

Yeah, PS is slow....4 tables shouldnt be a problem, I played at about 11-12 VPIP and that worked out nice...It depends on the table of course...If my cbets were folded often then I had closer to 12-14 VPIP as I was willinf to open up more and nittier tables I played 7-10 VPIP especially if my cbets were floated often...

I'm used to seeing 40-50 hands per table per hour, so it was quite a slowdown playing on stars $2 enel. wtf someone disconnects, they stop the whole table for four minutes? On ipoker, they just give them a free ai and play the hand out (one per person per day to avoid abuse).
I could happily run 4 tables max for now, and 11% VPIP fits in nicely with 'no foldem holdem' on stars. On stars It's a combination of having:
- 4x the player base of ipoker
- 9 man FR instead of 10
But so far at $2nl I've been able to easily find super loose/passive tables with no-one in the queue, and it's refreshing.

[Luco]

Isn't sticking 10£ on a waste of the first deposit bonus?. granted its 50$ max , but thats only 33£ , gives you a bit of a cushion for starting 2NL , and gets yoiu that much closer to $100 where you can move up to 5NL.
Also does that allow you to get into the reload freerolls that are starting today, may be a quick way to boost your stars roll.

I did consider dropping $100 on but it's kind of irrelevant seeing as I hardly have any time to play right now. I've played like 1k hands in 3 weeks or something, it sucks. I'm actually on ftr more than the tables (because I can come here while I'm in work). Hate life.

[Luco]

Weekend went well, my biggest problem will always be time. I'd love to get in 5k hands a month but that shit's not happening, yo. Sample size is so small that KK is like my second biggest losing hand for June (lol suckouts).

I hate timebank folds (I think they're called 'hollywood' folds?). I know you're bluffing, you know you're bluffing, we both know you haven't got the balls to play back, so just fold already and stop being a drama llama. Every second you waste just makes your dick shrink that little bit more.

I got to join in one of the IRC reg games on Friday and it turns out I suck at power poker. I was the table nit with my 25% vpip (average was 60-80%) and I didn't really do too much, but at least I got lots of helpful pointers from stacks.

Well, not lots of pointers.

Actually it was just one pointer, repeated over and over.

Well it wasn't really a pointer, more a sort of comment on my play.

Basically he kept calling me a fish.

My game is improving, as June is 'work on ranges' month for me my next post ITT will have a couple of HH's that illustrate my work in progress. Stay tuned.

[Vinland]

so hows 2nl at Stars going now?

I should look your name up to see when you're on....probably when I'm sleeping.

[Luco]

Stars $2nl >>> ipoker $2nl

PM me your sn or something vinland or just look out for me in IRC, we'll spew some chips together

[Luco]

2nd in stars 90 man $2.20 SnG for $33.30.

I suck something awful at MTTs but have been trolling the tourney tactics sections on ftr this week so it's getting better.

Would have been first:

 44  games     0.031 secs     1,419  games/sec

Board: Qd 2s As Jd
Dead:  

	equity 	win 	tie 	      pots won 	pots tied	
Hand 0: 	88.636%  	88.64% 	00.00% 	            39 	        0.00   { Ad5h }
Hand 1: 	11.364%  	11.36% 	00.00% 	             5 	        0.00   { Qc9c }

But villain hit his 9 on the river after calling my turn shove. Thanks to the railbirds, it was fun.

[Micro2Macro]

Ouch! You run like m2m when it comes to final table heads up play.

Nice finish though, gg.