Isolating a short Stack (2nl)

[Mr. Bucket]

Villain is 100/43 over 21 hands. Im not sure if isolating players this short is good or not. My thought process was that my hand has his limping range dominated. I assumed a fish like him would be calling/shoving a ton of worse hands. On flop i think his min bet doesn't take anything out of his range. I raise because i think the combination of my fold equity and straight draw + overcard outs will make it profitable, is this the best way to handle this type of fishy short stack?



PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($0.53)
MP ($0.30)
CO ($2.48)
Hero (Button) ($2.50)
SB ($0.92)
BB ($3.05)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9, A
1 fold, MP calls $0.02, 1 fold, Hero bets $0.10, 1 fold, BB calls $0.08, MP calls $0.08

Flop: ($0.31) 10, J, Q (3 players)
BB checks, MP bets $0.04, Hero raises to $0.42, 1 fold, MP calls $0.16 (All-In)

Turn: ($0.71) 5 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($0.71) 4 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $0.71 | Rake: $0.03

{Edit: Converted HH for you. --spoonitnow}

[spoonitnow]

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ds-162741.html

I converted your HH for you. Feel free to post the raw HHs and someone will post the converted version for you until you can use it.

[chatzilla]

playing a 100/43 (lol) your gonna have no fold equity pretty much ever so just wait for tp and stack him

[Mr. Bucket]

"playing a 100/43 (lol) your gonna have no fold equity pretty much ever so just wait for tp and stack him"

If i have no fold equity is he calling with worse hands? I feel i should be shoving unless he is only doing this with a pair. i mean if he calls with 79 and the like i clearly should be shoving shouldnt i?

also i know top pair will stack him np i just want to know if this specific situation is a +ev preflop move as well as what i should do on the flop

[paratrooper99]

I raise because i think the combination of my fold equity and straight draw + overcard outs will make it profitable, is this the best way to handle this type of fishy short stack?

How can this possibly be profitable. If he has a pair, you have 7 outs to beat him for a monster shipment of 30 cents minus rake. As already pointed out, you have no fold equity to a short stack that has a third of his chips committed preflop and is betting into you.

Pick a better spot.

[Mr. Bucket]

What you are saying makes literally no sense.

" If he has a pair, you have 7 outs"
I have 8 outs to the straights as well as 3 outs to a pair of aces 8 + 3 = 11

If I have 0% fold equity as you guys are claiming, then my shoving is the same as just putting him all in. If this was the case i would be risking $.20 to win $.51 therefore i would need (.2)/(.51+.2) x 100 = 28.17% equity.

even if his range was only two pair i would have a profitable push :

Hand 0: 30.535% 29.33% 01.20% 7840 322.00 { Ad9s }
Hand 1: 69.465% 68.26% 01.20% 18246 322.00 { QTs+, JTs, QTo+, JTo }

Please this is not a spot to get away from, shoving is profitable, i am only asking if it is the most profitable way to handle this type of situation.

[rpm]

as best i know, in general, when we have 0% fold equity (which we most likely do here) and <50% equity, we are better off flatting than raising, which essentially puts more money in the pot against a range which we lose to more often than we win. thus i think i prefer flatting, especially when villain sized his bet so terribly. that said, this is the most trivial spot in the world. preflop iso is standard, and the only -EV move postflop is to fold (even if he open-shoves the flop, we are getting 2.5:1, needing about 28% equity - we're never folding)

[rpm]

How can this possibly be profitable. If he has a pair, you have 7 outs to beat him for a monster shipment of 30 cents minus rake. As already pointed out, you have no fold equity to a short stack that has a third of his chips committed preflop and is betting into you.

Pick a better spot.

"pick a better spot" only applies to tournaments as far as i'm concerned, where the risk of being stacked is far more detrimental. this play is +EV, we should make it.

how do we pick a better spot anyway? we iso'd against a super wide and weak range with a hand that has >50% equity against basically any two cards (minus the best ones, because he has a PFR over this sample and is likely raising 88+,AJ+ etc). then we flopped 30-40% equity and our decision is now trivial. where was our chance to pick a better spot? on the flop? preflop?

[Mr. Bucket]

First of all thanks for your comment, i am sorry if i didn't know this spot was trivial, but i am very new to poker(started playing online a couple weeks ago) I was unaware that this was a standard iso pre and i needed to hear it was against this short villain.

As far as post flop, you are also asserting that we have no fold equity. If this is true i highly doubt we have <50% equity. The villains range could have tens, jacks, and queens, sure, but i believe he may also have 9s and king highs and ace highs, with the range weighted more heavily towards aces and kings due to the fact that he called my isolation.

look at this stove:

Hand 0: 50.865% 45.34% 05.53% 350549 42732.00 { Ad9s }
Hand 1: 49.135% 43.61% 05.53% 337177 42732.00 { 88+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, A2o+, K2o+, Q2o+, J2o+, T2o+, 92o+, 82o+ }

To be honest i have NO IDEA what range to assign here. I gave him any straight draw or pair and we have > than 50% equity, but is that a decent range? What would us having 50% equity mean? would you fold this hand at any point? i think our ace high might be good enough to check down even if we call and blank turn/ river. If this is true why are we even calling?

Also i read that most players big leaks are most visible in the small pots they play. This kind of hand may not get posted often, but that does not mean it is not of value, i have already learned plenty, and clearly some of the other posters on this would do well to do the same.

as best i know, in general, when we have 0% fold equity (which we most likely do here) and <50% equity, we are better off flatting than raising, which essentially puts more money in the pot against a range which we lose to more often than we win. thus i think i prefer flatting, especially when villain sized his bet so terribly. that said, this is the most trivial spot in the world. e never folding)

[rpm]

First of all thanks for your comment, i am sorry if i didn't know this spot was trivial, but i am very new to poker(started playing online a couple weeks ago) I was unaware that this was a standard iso pre and i needed to hear it was against this short villain.

As far as post flop, you are also asserting that we have no fold equity. If this is true i highly doubt we have <50% equity. The villains range could have tens, jacks, and queens, sure, but i believe he may also have 9s and king highs and ace highs, with the range weighted more heavily towards aces and kings due to the fact that he called my isolation.

look at this stove:

Hand 0: 50.865% 45.34% 05.53% 350549 42732.00 { Ad9s }
Hand 1: 49.135% 43.61% 05.53% 337177 42732.00 { 88+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, A2o+, K2o+, Q2o+, J2o+, T2o+, 92o+, 82o+ }

To be honest i have NO IDEA what range to assign here. I gave him any straight draw or pair and we have > than 50% equity, but is that a decent range? What would us having 50% equity mean? would you fold this hand at any point? i think our ace high might be good enough to check down even if we call and blank turn/ river. If this is true why are we even calling?

Also i read that most players big leaks are most visible in the small pots they play. This kind of hand may not get posted often, but that does not mean it is not of value, i have already learned plenty, and clearly some of the other posters on this would do well to do the same.

there's no need to apologise. we're all here to learn. i would preface everything i say with "this is just my opinion and i don't necessarily think i am right", but i just assume everything i say is read as such and so don't bother. i think you make some good points there, namely:

- that no pot is too small for consideration (through its simplicity this one actually highlights some important things about how equity, fold equity, and stack-sizes relate to Expected Value)
- that if we have 0% fold equity (ie he cbets 100% of his range and never folds any) on this flop, we are likely to have 50% or more equity on this flop simply because he had so much shit in his range pre (low/middle suited/offuit connectors/one, two gappers etc).

you said something about "what would 50% equity mean?", basically we need to have 50% or greater equity against our opponent's calling range for a value bet or raise to be +EV. it doesnt really matter much in this spot however because villain doesn't have enough money in his stack to not give us adequate pot odds to get all-in. as you said, it's hard to determine villain's precise range or our equity against it because it's so wide. we may be actually be ahead, the point is that the the stack-to-pot-ratio (SPR) is so small that we can never fold. i probably just shove tbh here because it's a trivial spot and it saves me an extra click (potential misclick-fold) on the turn.

hope some of that makes sense

[JKDS]

wayy too tl;dr

-iso is fine

-flop raise size is pretty bad i think. bb folds the same hands to .2 (mp's effective stack) as he does to .42...but we own ourselves more when he does something besides fold. Couple that with the millions of ways he can have better than TP and i really hate the large size.

[rpm]

thought we were heads-up to flop. well spotted JKDS. (facepalms self)