2/4: flop the nuts (deep)

[IowaSkinsFan]

If you check and he shoves you are going to be getting 4 to 1 on a call, which means you have to be winning 20% of the time to have a call be profitable. It's really as simple as that. The simple idea that I think its plausible that you are winning or chopping makes this an easy call.

But back to the actual hand I'd absolutely shove. You are giving yourself too much credit on your ability to read this guys hand.

[pocketfours]

If you check and he shoves you are going to be getting 4 to 1 on a call, which means you have to be winning 20% of the time to have a call be profitable. It's really as simple as that. The simple idea that I think its plausible that you are winning or chopping makes this an easy call.

But back to the actual hand I'd absolutely shove. You are giving yourself too much credit on your ability to read this guys hand.

I wise man once taught me that calling in spots where you are never good is one of the worst mistakes you can make in this game. I guess we don't agree about this being such a spot, but I think it is and I've got to go with my reads. It's not like folding is going to be a huge mistake even if I'm wrong.

If I thought he could have called the turn with J9 I would definitely have jammed the river, but since I think he never has that (or AJ) I think c/f is the correct play.

[Alexos]

I wise man once taught me that calling in spots where you are never good is one of the worst mistakes you can make in this game. I guess we don't agree about this being such a spot, but I think it is and I've got to go with my reads. It's not like folding is going to be a huge mistake even if I'm wrong.

If I thought he could have called the turn with J9 I would definitely have jammed the river, but since I think he never has that (or AJ) I think c/f is the correct play.

If you have such great reads on the player where you can narrow his range down to TT/QQ/KK there is no point in posting this hand, is there?

I agree with ISF.

[pocketfours]

If you have such great reads on the player where you can narrow his range down to TT/QQ/KK there is no point in posting this hand, is there?

I agree with ISF.

Just arguing against for sake of discussion. Not only TT/QQ/(KK) (6-9 combos), but also KQ/KT/QT (30 combos) and I don't think he calls a bet or bets himself with those.

I guess I'm torn between shoving and c/f. He could be bad enough to show up with something random or bad enough to call with KQ which probably makes it a shove but I disagree with nutsinho in that I think it's pretty close.

[griffey24]

Just arguing against for sake of discussion. Not only TT/QQ/(KK) (6-9 combos), but also KQ/KT/QT (30 combos) and I don't think he calls a bet or bets himself with those.

If you think his range has so many strong hands in it, I guess I don't really get why you wouldn't just ram 3bet this flop so hard. It's not as if you think he would get away from these hands?

[pocketfours]

If you think his range has so many strong hands in it, I guess I don't really get why you wouldn't just ram 3bet this flop so hard. It's not as if you think he would get away from these hands?

Yeah I misplayed the flop obviously, I heard you the first time.

edit: not sure if he calls a turn jam with two pair when I 3bet flop bigger, so I don't think my play is super terrible. But yeah, fish raises flop, we have the nuts, let's put some money in the pot.

[nutsinho]

If I thought he could have called the turn with J9 I would definitely have jammed the river, but since I think he never has that (or AJ) I think c/f is the correct play.

wait what? J9 is a straight. go allin not close

[pocketfours]

wait what? J9 is a straight. go allin not close

Yes it's a straight and I think he jams the flop or turn with that so I had to remove it from his range.