PF 3bet OOP and hitting resistance @ 5NL

[daviddem]

H1: If he does it with AA,QQ,AKs,AKo, you have 33.7% equity against this range Pot odds are 32% so it is a very slim call. If he has any AQ it's a fold because your equity drops to 27.7%. So if you have the slightest doubt that he may have AQ, just fold.

Why are you 3 betting AK pre against a 8/6 UTG raise? He's not folding many better hands and he's folding all his worse hands. I'd flat and wake up if I hit an A or K. Plus the button is there too, so there is a good chance that you will have to play a 3 bet pot OOP without a made hand on the flop. I also think your preflop 3b sizing is too small, would make it like 0.8. As played, I'd bet more on this wet flop, close to pot. Then it would be more of a call when he shoves with AA,QQ,AKs,AKo, because of all the dead money.

H2: I think he has more pocket pairs in his flatting range because it's pretty much correct to set mine in position in this spot. Again,bet more on this wet flop, close to pot. Not sure he folds AK on the flop with two overs and a gutshot. After that his line is a bit bizarre for a 14/11, but maybe he takes chances on the flop and slowplays a set then slowplays his boat on the turn. Difficult to see a 14/11 chasing a straight draw or overs all the way with JJ or AK here but you never know. You can't b/f river, if you bet anything you are committed so you might as well get it in if you're going to bet anything. I don't think it's good to bet here, as he never folds a better hand and he never calls with a worse hand. As played, He should be bluffing >25% of the time for this to be a call.

[Openside]

H1: If he does it with AA,QQ,AKs,AKo, you have 33.7% equity against this range Pot odds are 32% so it is a very slim call. If he has any AQ it's a fold because your equity drops to 27.7%. So if you have the slightest doubt that he may have AQ, just fold.

Why are you 3 betting AK pre against a 8/6 UTG raise? He's not folding many better hands and he's folding all his worse hands. I'd flat and wake up if I hit an A or K. Plus the button is there too, so there is a good chance that you will have to play a 3 bet pot OOP without a made hand on the flop. I also think your preflop 3b sizing is too small, would make it like 0.8. As played, I'd bet more on this wet flop, close to pot. Then it would be more of a call when he shoves with AA,QQ,AKs,AKo, because of all the dead money.

This is an obvious hole in my understanding. Its 3way if i flat anyway. AK blows multiway. I want to get this to HU pre, no? HU on the flop i have alot more fold equity.
Why do i want to commit myself to calling a shove? My thinking was that anything i beat is folding to my flop bet. A call/raise and i am crushed given the range i put him on. I want to leave myself an out, no?
Thanks for your comments, mate. I obviously dont have this clear.

[NightGizmo]

This is an obvious hole in my understanding. Its 3way if i flat anyway. AK blows multiway. I want to get this to HU pre, no? HU on the flop i have alot more fold equity.
Why do i want to commit myself to calling a shove? My thinking was that anything i beat is folding to my flop bet.

I think the gap in your logic is that you're not understanding why you're betting. Preflop -- is your raise as a bluff or for value? You're not going to fold any hands that crush you (AA/KK) but you are folding most of the hands that you will crush if you hit an A or K (AQo, JJ and lower).

Same goes for the flop -- look at your bolded sentence. You bet into a pot expecting all worse hands to fold and all better hands to call. You aren't betting for value, because no worse hands call. It's not a good bluff, because (a) no better hands fold and (b) not enough of his range folds to make the bet profitable in a vacuum. So where does that leave you? You're just giving away money.

[Openside]

I think the gap in your logic is that you're not understanding why you're betting. Preflop -- is your raise as a bluff or for value? You're not going to fold any hands that crush you (AA/KK) but you are folding most of the hands that you will crush if you hit an A or K (AQo, JJ and lower).Same goes for the flop -- look at your bolded sentence. You bet into a pot expecting all worse hands to fold and all better hands to call. You aren't betting for value, because no worse hands call. It's not a good bluff, because (a) no better hands fold and (b) not enough of his range folds to make the bet profitable in a vacuum. So where does that leave you? You're just giving away money.

Im 3betting to get HU and for info. Point taken, by 3betting for info im folding everything i beat.
Any thoughts on why villain took the line he did?

[rpm]

As played, I'd bet more on this wet flop, close to pot. Then it would be more of a call when he shoves with AA,QQ,AKs,AKo, because of all the dead money.

while my poker brain's actually switched on, does anybody else think this is terrible logic in (what is, as best i can tell) a way ahead/way behind situation (in hand 1)?

for starters, this flop is not wet at all given villain's range. we block his only flush draw with our Kh. it's impossible to flop an 8-out straight draw on AQx, and he probably never gets to the flop with anything that could make a gutterball (KJ is the strongest preflop hand that can make a gutshot on this board). basically, either he's dead to two outs (vs 99,TT,JJ,KK), we're chopping (vs AK), we're dead to backdoor AA/KK (vs QQ), or we're drawing dead altogether (vs AA)

i mean betting more only makes our opponent's range stronger. that seems pretty intuitive. seems like intentionally betting so much that we can't fold to a shove is tying a noose around our neck, and standing on a stool in front of our opponent, right?