Not So Vanilla Werewolf Diffusion

[Keith]

hey guys....read through the whole thread with ong gabe and jkds as a team as a viewpoint and wholly shit , all game they have been agreeing with each other and when one is taking heat another tries to steer the conversation onto focussing on somebody else. I just have and there will be a mega multipost coming up but so it doesn't get missed


Gabe you referred to catch and release system. Will you explain where you came up with that phrase. It sounds like a strategy that has been discussed in the wolf thread and also sounds like a theory that jkds or ong would have brought to the wolf thread from Mafiascum. As soon as you mentioned it JKDS immediately questioned "catch and release" and you stumbled over where you came up with that phrase from .

[Luco]

I'm back and I've caught up. Couple of thoughts.

Hoopy, please explain this. So you vote jyms waaaay back and stay on him…

We've got about 3 hours left, I think we should consolidate onto jyms or daven and see what happens tonight.

I'm sticking with jyms for now.

^ Then you suggest we consolidate

Well tbh I didn't really think we'd snag a wolf today, none of the potential targets had a solid case against them.

I'm going to review daven's posts.

^ Then you say that neither of jyms / daven had a solid against them. When you say targets are you including ong in this comment?

Soon after

lynch jyms

You again vote for someone who, in your own words, doesn’t have a solid case against him. Talk me through your thinking here.

[GatorJH]

Sorry I have been afk but yesterday and today have been totally busy. The good news is that tomorrow is a couch day so I should be able to read the thread in detail and post some thoughts.

My high level thoughts are that JKDS, Keith, and Ong are villagers while Jyms, and bigred still top my wolf list. I dunno about Gabe. I read some of his posts and they smell wolf then others really look villagery.

All others I need to review tomorrow.

[Luco]

Nice...

Looking back on the first day I think there's a high chance Luco is a wolf as well.

And if he is, I think we need to look at Jums

Lay out your case against me, then explain why you’re linking me to jums.

[Luco]

Actually I saw a post of yours back there that I didn’t respond to. I’ll answer that.

I've finally read through. Will save my thoughts on Ong till tomorrow or it will cloud the thread.

I don't like this...

If my post looks like blatant fence sitting, it’s because it was. I hadn’t made my mind up either way at that point, but I wasn't bothered because I think I have a decent meta on ong - I expected his behaviour would diverge on day 2 depending on role.

When ong was a wolf in the game rong modded he got seer’d n1. Looking through his d1 posts later we were able to clear half the village. Ong felt bad for this and said so in the dead thread – he knows he isn’t great at balancing his range. Wolf ong would very much have this in his thinking this game given that he would be better than random at getting seer’d n1 again. So the meta is simple – if ong is a wolf, he’ll post less reads because he wouldn’t want to make the same mistake and let his team down again. On d2 as a wolf he’d either afk or try to find an excuse to go quiet until he’d assessed the possibility of a lookup. He hasn’t done this. There’s no caution in his posts. It’s pretty solid evidence for villager imo.

Also, now that I've shared it I hope you can see why I held back yesterday. I didn't want to change the outcome by observing it.

[gabe]

hey guys....read through the whole thread with ong gabe and jkds as a team as a viewpoint and wholly shit , all game they have been agreeing with each other and when one is taking heat another tries to steer the conversation onto focussing on somebody else. I just have and there will be a mega multipost coming up but so it doesn't get missed

whats more likely... crazy keith finds the exact team of wolves which includes the rare case of ong being a wolf OR keith is just off on some wild hair chasing a super soul read? yes i agree with jkds because he is viewing ong the same as i have

Gabe you referred to catch and release system. Will you explain where you came up with that phrase. It sounds like a strategy that has been discussed in the wolf thread and also sounds like a theory that jkds or ong would have brought to the wolf thread from Mafiascum. As soon as you mentioned it JKDS immediately questioned "catch and release" and you stumbled over where you came up with that phrase from .

when i said this there hadnt been much discussion that day. i was trying to encourage people to start wagons on people, go hard at them so the village could gain information. i had decided i wanted to encourage the village to do this, but i didnt want to spell it out so the wolves wouldnt be able to easily defend against it. i just referred to this as 'catch and release' hoping people would pick up on it and start posting and bolding

the idea that we created a strategy with a specific name like "catch and release" in the wolf thread, and then i somehow mistakenly mentioned it here blowing our cover, thus making me a wolf, does sound exactly like a crazy keith theory.

keith im actually pretty happy you are coming at me because these reasons i could be a wolf are super weak. so weak that i should be pretty much cleared by everyone else.

[Keith]

Not really. There's not many people here who are as good as dan. There's you, gabe and gator. Jack when he's on form.
But thanks for joining gabe in my villager list. I like the idea of a JKDS gabe ong townbloc to crush the wolves.

yeah .....keep up with the crazy references. plenty more evidence to come

[gabe]

i wonder if ever in history a wolf has pointed to 2 other wolves like that and said 'yup we're all village!'


i know its impossible for you to know what i know, but i know you are wrong about me, so you spending more and more energy casting me as a wolf will only lead you to making more mistakes.


if your set on reading through again and again and finding so called "evidence," try reading back with the assumption im a villager, and everything i've posted will make PERFECT sense!

then once you can swallow that tidbit, maybe ong and jkds will actually seem like very likely villagers instead.


regardless of whatever you decide, this has been not that constructive because from my point of view, we arent closer to bagging a wolf.

[Keith]

well here goes

lynch rong because only a wolf has "intentional misrepresentation" on his mind

I think ong and jack have a very good chance of being village. I don't think we are going to get a better lead than rong just gave us. it's hard to see myself switching to someone different

not many players so don't expect a long day 1. lets lynch rong and get working on tonight. if I'm right you can clear a villager and kill a wolf !

I have no night 1 power so angel please protect me

super sick if you are a wolf. frees up the rest of the village for you to target.

I like ong's posts and they make him seem quite villagery

I like the points gator is trying to make but the way he raises them is potentially wolfy (where I think ong's post aren't)

1 villager point to jkds

Not really. There's not many people here who are as good as dan. There's you, gabe and gator. Jack when he's on form.
But thanks for joining gabe in my villager list. I like the idea of a JKDS gabe ong townbloc to crush the wolves.

Is this Ong spewing early in the thread giving away the wolf team ...cos hey noone will catch on and all are good players. Wolves always spew early in the game.

I'm on 5 votes.

Guys I'm a n1 seer. If we have a n1 angel, don't out, just protect me. I'll have a wolf tomorrow. If I get nommed, then jack and bigred all day long. Last one could be anyone.

making his play ..and requesting protection. again convenient if you three are a wolf team and who else asked to be protected already ...gabe.

Lynch me tomorrow if you have any doubts. It's a bad fakeclaim for a wolf.

jkds

ong
rong
jv
gator
jyms
bid
bigred
luco
hoop
gabe
daven
keith


i can only vote for rong, jyms, bigred, keith, daven.

fwiw last time daven did an extended AFK he was a wolf (WW 2013 game). he had real reasons, but maybe subconciously he wouldnt do this as a villager? like if he was a wolf, he uses the convenient excuse of not checking the internet, but when hes hunting, he always takes the time to check the thread.

Like this one ^. I remember wolf ong going ballistic and throwing out reads on everyone and attacking everyone that attacked him as a wolf before.



And in this one ^ he seems pissed off and cornered. I mean, if his claim is true then I can see why he would be mad about getting votes...its essentially a sign he fucked up. So it makes sense both ways.



But this one seems like a lie. His attack on Jack seemed sincere to me; maybe not a 100% confident read but his posts indicated he at least thought jack was wolfier than most players. This wasnt just a reaction test with no teeth behind it, ong thought (and still thinks) that JV is a wolf.

This is a desperate defense, and he outed shortly after. What i'm struggling with is if Ong would really feel this desperation just because hes a n1 seer or if it makes more sense that hes just a wolf.



This post doesnt matter though. 1), everyone is gonna claim something before they die. We cant just stop lynching because someone claimed. 2) idk if I can believe you no matter what role you are. You stated already that people should lie about their role (angel/seer) and also their night. I have no reason to think you wouldnt follow this and just claim seer n1 to get another day.

This is tough, and I dont think its gonna get better. I dont think he can stay alive past tomorrow, but i dont think we lose much by just waiting. I vote wait.

so jkds is saying that he shouldn't stay alive past today ...amazing how he's changed his tune. Also he points out that ong wolf attacks those people that lynch him.

Nah, I think ong's a villager. Theres too many attacks against him that seem contrived and bandwagony, especially after wuf killed luco's argument and he outed. I get the confusion, but my gut is to slow down and work it out not push harder.

and a rapid change of heart

I agree with you gabe. jyms hasn't done anything to convince me he's a villager, and seeing as bigred and jack do not seem to be acceptable targets, I'm stuck there. Dan is in the same place as jyms, only I feel dan's wolfhunting record is stronger than jyms' and as such it's jyms if rong is the alternative.

daven got into my villager camp by getting wagonned by bigred and jack. I won't be reassessing daven until I find out the alignment of one of those two.

again the team putting pressure on another player .

look at all of us hunting wolves, trying to get to the bottom of this. who isnt doing this? rong, jyms, keith, bigred come to mind

gabe hinting at me and emphasizing that its the "team" who are doing the wolf hunting. now he's claiming that he hasn't been hinting at me all ga,e.

please don't follow ong. I'm starting think he's a wolf or he's not actually going to look up jack tonight

tomorrow well be more sure about that situation

ok lets kill rong since he is unrelated to this ong drama. angel protect ong but maybe like 10% of the time pick someone else

lets deflect away from a team mate and oh protect him .only people telling the angels who to protect are gabe and ong so far.

Wow that's some crazy logic. So a wolf would never attempt to misdirect the town into making optimal wolf moves because lol as if a wolf would ever be so blatant? Is that it?

This seems like a typical Ong dare post where he can't resist taunting the village.

this is so dumb

just reading the first handful of posts in the thread, it seems really likely that jack is a villager and ong is spazzing

they both happily voted for daven early on too rescind and

lynch daven

again protecting ong and deflecting the attention elsewhere

And if jack comes back wolf gabe shoots to the top of my list. It's interesting that gabe is trying to get me to look up gator. There's plenty of other seers who can do that. I'm interested in bigred and jack, and I'm not about to be influenced by anyone who isn't confirmed villager.

Note that Gabe only shoots to the top of his list if Jack comes back a wolf. gabe and ong as a wolf team would know that Jack will never come back as wolf as they are going to eat him so ong is throwing suspicion at Gabe which will never be realised by evidence.

To be clear - I don't have a problem with people not believing me. It might surprise me that you think a wolf who felt like he was forced to fakeclaim on d1 would claim a n1 action, but it doesn't matter. What matters is that I live through the night. That's +ev for village, while killing me today is -ev. I never survive for long as a wolf in this spot..

Here's a thought. If I'm right about jack, then the wolves will be forced to nom me, right? If they nom me, what does that tell the village about jack? Yeah it looks bad for him. So if jack is wolf, the wolves won't want to nom me, nor will they want to leave me to look up a wolf.

If jack is a villager, then wolves might want to leave me alive, because while I clear jack, I'm tomorrow's lynch. They could nom me anyway so it looks bad for jack, but it seems better to just nom jack outright and leave me to be lynched.

We find out me a lot about me and jack overnight. Why would you want to jeopordise that?

What you're doing here dan is protecting jack and bigred from my night action. I might ask why you would do this?

funny how you predicted what was going to be the outcome of the night.

I lynched JV because Post 255. I lynched Jyms because theres 2 hours left, jack isnt dying, and I still think he is wolfy from his p1 and 2 posts.

Regarding handholding, I was referring to a game that I'm not sure you were in. In it I spent a ridiculous amount of time rallying the village into playing day 1 optimally, and the result was Ongbonga gave away most of his team. We, as a playerbase, didnt learn from this. That doesnt bother me, but I wouldnt have done it had I known there would be no impact on future games. I see no reason to believe doing it again would obtain a different result.

As for strategy, I charge $15/hr. Paypal only. The only information we needed for this set up was the warning of fake claims because of how prevalent they are; but I see no reason to invest more time than I already have on that subject considering ong beat the topic to death. Further, Idk why anyone here would need help with seer or angel strategy, and openly telling everyone how to act helps the wolves at night. There isnt anything else to discuss.

has he given away the rest of his team again this game.?openly telling people how to act at night helps the wolves ...hasn't stopped gabe and ongie from doing it though has it? But you still insist that they are villagers.

I dont think I know how to read people anymore. Except for gator from last game, ive been nothing but wrong for awhile.

He should have gotten some cool info from wuf though. Ong might be able to clear himself if he can tell someone their role and that person agrees. om not sure I like that idea though. 1) if he says angel, that Power has a higher chance of being right if hes just bullshitting as a wolf. with 2 seers dead, wolf ong knows that either the remaining pool is 4 angel 4 seer, or 5/3 or 6/2, so angel is a safe bet. but, 2) if he says seer, im not sure I want the wolves knowing who an active seer is. So idk.

The cost is too great I think. dont reveal roles ong/seers. If their power is used up and they out, then it makes sense.

essentially a worthless post except for planting the idea that ong could give a role and someone agree. could be handy if he tells a fellow wolf that they are angel/seer and wolf agrees. if the fellow wolf does get lynched by some chance and shown to be a wolf ong then has his n1 angel as a fall back and would just claim to be unlucky in saying a wolf was an villager.

They obviously killed jack because they thought I was going to clear him. So at least they believed me. Probably should've faked a guilty on bigred to see what happens but I think enough fucking about, we got two seers dead and I'm gonna take the fall.

ftr I have a much more awesome wolf strategy for this than the one I would be playing if I'm a wolf. If I were a wolf you'd all think I was a cleared villager by now. So the fact I'm looking fucked should suggest strongly that I'm a villager who got me a dose of SDM syndrome.

so if u thought all that stuff you could have protected JV

I could've if I actually thought he was a villager. I might even had done so if I considered they'd nom him. Whatever, my FPS fucked up and I'm not going to fight lynch because I haven't a leg to stand on. My only defence is this is way too retarded for me to do as a wolf.

cant argue with that!

lynch gator

to me hes just going along with things and hes not connected to the ong whirlwind that blew through the last few pages

bold i think are villagers:

jkds
ong
rong
gator
jums
bid
bigred
luco
hoop
gabe
keith

so gabe deflects attention away from ong again

Add Bigred, and I agree with Gabe's villager list. I feel strongest about BID and Ong. Other than that, I dont feel comfortable voting anyone until I get the chance to dig into the thread tomorrow afternoon.

again the team agreeing with each others lists.

What is the catch and release system?

run a train on someone and see if they out


everyone just waiting around for other people to convince them who to vote for isnt going to catch us up. all aboard the gator train

i dont know why i called it catch and release. i was maybe hoping people would just guess right so its not spelled out for the wolves, so they cant easily devise a counter-strat

like i said ....when pressed why he called it a catch and release system he can't explain why he used that phrase.implying its something that someone else originated and he can only have picked that up in the wolf thread.

I dont have time to discuss it atm, but Keith your bullet points dont make a good case agaisnt ong imo. I think the info we get about bigred from an ong lynch is quite minimal, and while we would be risking outing another special...we also lose the opportunity to nail a wolf. In addition, I can see ong lying about his role as both a vllager and a wolf, especially since he made that post about how he thinks thats the best strategy. I need more.

defending a teammate again

And the idea that me coming back villager clears bigred is flawed, so flawed that I think there's a good chance that keith is wolf with bigred.

rescind hoopy

By killing jack, they showed that they expected me to clear him today. So they didn't expect me to look up bigred. So bigred can easily be a wolf still.

Bigred is still my number one wolf suspect, he still jumped on my wagon yesterday because I changed my read on daven. But hey anyone notice that bigred himself changed his read on daven? He must have done, because when he was voting for me, he must have been assuming daven was a villager, seeing as I jumped on him when along with bigred after daven's flurry of posts.

Bigred's vote on me was a really bad excuse to pile on a villager wagon. If I need to die to show that I'm a villager and that's what bigred did, so be it. But bigred is still dodgy as fuck.

Keith suggesting bigred is cleared if I flip villager is sketch as fuck, because keith then votes for a vulnerable villager. When I flip, ooh look bigred is clear.

Truth is I'm feeling pretty dejected, I don't have any confidence whatsoever in my reads any more. But I'm not going to go down without telling people how my reads have changed as a result of what's happening today.

I now think bigred and keith are wolves.

remeber that quote from above where wolf Ong attacks the people attacking him.

I'm really against an ong lynch. if you guys think he's a wolf then he would have to be very very clever. it makes so much more sense that he was a villager. i don't see myself voting for him at all with what's out there


wow perfect timing for you to make a wolfy post. who actually writes that they "truly believe" something in werewolf unless they are lying or being misleading? to me that phrasing seems odd, and finding odd stuff is how you soulread

again defending ong and then deflection attention elsewhere

just think what ong put the village through,
then remember that ong gonna ong, and all of a sudden he doesn't seem like a wolf at all

another defend ong post

Yet you still think I'm a wolf? I'll say it again, I have what I consider to be an outstanding wolf strategy for this game format. But keith is right, if I'm a wolf I'm not being clever. In fact I'd be very reckless.

So keith has spotted a villager tell, yet is still presenting me as a wolf. Either that or he thinks I am stupid.

i agree with you that his rationale is wrong, but you should also realize how often you appear the same way. if someone is posting stuff thats wrong, does that make them wolfy or just a wrong villager?

either way i think its v v unlikely ong is a wolf and keith has a decent shot at being bad guy

again defending ong and pointing at me.

i dont disagree with your logic, i was just calling you out for using the words "truly believe." if someone in this game believed something, then they would usually just say they believe it, not try to force the village to accept they are being truthful but saying 'truly believe'

lynch keith

Im happiest with this. I think the wolves thought we'd kill ong today, and I think theyre pissed we're letting him go. Keith Rong and Jyms dont seem to be doing anything but going after him, and are ignoring all the signs that show ong is likely just villager ong. Wolves have a lot of difficulty in making up reads, and I think keith exemplifies that the best.

Epic wufwugy soul read this game is JeRKy, for Jyms Rong and Keith.

ongs targetted me , gabes targetted me , and now jkds has to join in and target me. signs of desperation in the den. If one of them falls they all fall now.

Day 1



Predicting ong is a n1 angel here...



and here...



and here on day 2, but ldo its completely unreasonable for him to ever be a villager and making this play.

No way. You're a wolf, chose not to kill him because you soul read his role, and now are hoping we do youre dirty work. None of the reasoning you have given for lynching ong holds any water, and if you were actually a villager I think you'd be more open to the idea of him being a villager since, you know, you predicted he was what he claims.

misrepresentation again, i said he could be a n1 angel as well as other options , not that he was a n1 angel

@Gabe: Lets wait a day or two on gator. I'd like to give him a little more opportunity to use a role if he has one, just because historically hes been one of our best seers/angels. I also dont like that jyms wants him dead too, and if Im right about keith then going after gator today is a mistake.

they really need to get rid of me and stop me highlighting the three of them.

JKDS what do you think of keith's comments that me flipping villager clears bigred? If keith is wolf, then he's either trying to clear bigred, or make it seem that way so he becomes an easy mislynch if keith dies. I'd be more inclined to think the former, seeing as bigred's reasoning for voting me yesterday seemed highly opportunistic.

I like your logic regarding jyms and rong, but I can't see all three wolves come gunning for me while everyone else dithers. I'd expect one to hold back.

I also must admit gabe backing off me so fast felt weird.

more team play trying to pile the pressure onto me.

Well JKDS and luco are my two strongest villager reads so bigred and keith are not really helping their cause afaic.

again reinforce in the village eyes that gabe and JKDS are villagers

to me it seems like theres no way ong is a wolf.

keith's analysis is wrong, but that doesnt make me think hes a wolf

i disagree with what rongs saying and he seems to be trying to keep village focus on ong. since i feel strongly ong is a villager, i dont understand why rong wouldnt see this, which makes me think hes wolfy (while if it was keith doing this, i think its more likely keith is making a mistake)

jyms is iffy. not much to go by here

i'm voting gator or rong

they can't risk the village listening to me, but maybe they realise now that they are so linked to one another , if i die and shown to be a villager then its curtains for their wolf team.

i would out if i found a wolf, and just defend a known villager if they catch heat without saying i looked them up

i think we dont need to out for villagers because imo there is already a small group of confirmed villagers. if the person is 1 vote away from a lynch then its worth outing. ofc the wolves could do this but we will be smart on how we deal with any and all claims

why refuse to say who your confirmed group of villagers. obviously team wolf of ong, gabe jkds.

ong is a polarizing figure so how about someone just look him up at night. thats fine with me. but i think village should lynch someone not him or related to the people hes arguing with because to me it seems like villagers just going at it

Again , they've blatantly been calling me a wolf ....but now its just villagers going at each other. they can't risk me being shown to be a villager.also if they are team wolf and i'm a villager then lynching one of the non participants in the argument will ensure that we don't get a wolf and increases the chance of hitting a remaining seer

i agree it fits, as in, its possible, but imo its so much more likely hes just playing ong style. i forget if you played the deadwolf game, but ong spewed so hard he challenged someone to a duel as a wolf and promptly lost. hes doing the same thing here... playing his role with maximum spewage. if he was a wolf, this plan of his would be carefully constructed, which i dont think is what happened

again defending ong but trying to get some distance. His outing was forced on him because he was heading for a lynch. he's being winging it ever since and hence the non constructed plan.

another thing that struck me was that around the time of Ongs outing , gabe and jkds totally disappeared from the thread. go back and check as they are bound to deny it.

[gabe]

I'm almost offended you would think I'd play that way as a wolf. jkds and I never had any heat, so why would we need to defend ong and risk our cover. wolves never team up in the game thread.

Keith you have a very sensational style and it hurts your credibility

please answer this. if not all 3 of us are wolves, doesn't that blow your theory apart ? like if jkds or ong come back clean, will that clear me ?

also I wonder if all this is even necessary. you've dragged me into a mudfight where it's hard for either of us to be clean (unless you villagers are smart and realize I'm always a villager). arguing with you is not helping the village unless many people were suspicious of me. the wolves are probably being smart and staying out of the way of your rampage (gator /rong maybe??)

[BankItDrew]

If Keith is nommed, how often does it mean he was on the tight track vs how often the wolves are framing him?

[rong]

I feel bad saying this but I didn't even read Keith's super long post.

I agree with Gabe about the odds of Keith nailing all 3 like that being about 1 in 1(add lots of zeros here).

But this doesn't make keith wolfy, it makes him keith.

Here's my thoughts. This is without rereading the thread, just my feelings on each player from what has stuck with me.

jkds - No idea. I don't have anything to say about him. I don't know why and I don't like it. He has posted a good chunk but for some reason I don't feel he has added much. This may just be me remembering poorly in the morning. I need to reread which I fucking hate doing but I'm going to have to on the strength of JKDS alone.

ong - hmmmpffff, I kinda get where Gabe is coming from in that his behavior when viewed in total does seem more likely villager than wolf. However, when Gabe discusses it he always seems imply that it is really unlikely wolf Ong would act like this, which I disagree with. I mean day 1 he played it exactly how wolf ong would. I think I also did a great job of explaining his predicament and the likely outcomes. If wolf he did potentially the only thing he could to avoid his lynch. Gabe seems to want to ignore this point. This bothers me about Gabe. Overall, I think Ong could definitely still be a wolf, although by no means a guarantee, but we also know he isn't a future seer, so he is a low risk lynch at a time when we don't have any particularly good suspects.

gator - seems dodgy but nothing solid to go on. I wouldn't be against his lynch but don't really have a case against him. This is standard for Gator though regardless of role. He seems to be posting very little that is memorable.

jums - wolfy, not adding much, possibly describe him as guarded.

bid - I have no fucking idea what this guy is up to at any point. No role would surprise me.

bigred - bigred, nothing would surprise me.

luco - need to see more, not sure right now. Has been akf but explained it. Not keen to lynch right now.

hoop - he seems like hoopy always seems, which is always a bit wolfy, he's kinda like jyms in that regard. Nothing memorable stands out. Wouldn't be against his lynch but not overly keen on it either.

gabe - I can't read Gabe at all. We seem to be on opposite sides of the Ong situation and I do question his analysis as it seems to try to make sure Ong is seen as a villager. I get what he's saying but I think he tilts it funny Possibly a wolf but again I don't really have much to go on and I could be skewed by his constantly calling me a wolf.

keith - standard keith. No fucking idea whatsoever.


I'm gonna read through again later today. I don't think we're anywhere near deadline yet so no rush. I'm interested to see how my thoughts change from having just read the thread once disjointedly to reading it all in one go.

[rong]

One more thing.

If I can't make a good wolf case against anyone, then Ong is my default for reasons already explained. I really don't think he is a bad lynch relative to everyone else.

But I'll see what I come up with.

[gabe]

rong I agree that if ong was a wolf and thought he was in trouble then he needs to do something like he did

but I don't think he would claim one thing then switch to claiming something else (I know it makes sense for him to do this in retrospect, but I don't think it's his most likely action in the moment)

also I typically trust posters who post a wall of text but rong isn't saying much in all those words

[Hoopy]

I'm back and I've caught up. Couple of thoughts.

Hoopy, please explain this. So you vote jyms waaaay back and stay on him…

^ Then you suggest we consolidate


^ Then you say that neither of jyms / daven had a solid against them. When you say targets are you including ong in this comment?

Yes I am, Ong was a bad lynch due to outing and the possibility of night actions revealing his role.

Soon after

You again vote for someone who, in your own words, doesn’t have a solid case against him. Talk me through your thinking here.

Nobody had a solid case against them, I was just prodding jyms to see if he reacted at all.

[Hoopy]

Lets get some pressure going on different people and try to gain some info.

lynch Gator

[Hoopy]

I've seen keith post walls of text attacking 1/2 people before, always as a villager.

[Hoopy]

Also I really like the idea of a seer looking up Ong tonight if possible. This way we don't mislynch him today. If he's a villager then the wolves either have to kill him tonight or let the village have someone confirmed all of tomorrow. If he's a wolf that clears lots of things up.

[Keith]

I'm almost offended you would think I'd play that way as a wolf. jkds and I never had any heat, so why would we need to defend ong and risk our cover. wolves never team up in the game thread.

slip of the fingers ?

Keith you have a very sensational style and it hurts your credibility

please answer this. if not all 3 of us are wolves, doesn't that blow your theory apart ? like if jkds or ong come back clean, will that clear me ?

also I wonder if all this is even necessary. you've dragged me into a mudfight where it's hard for either of us to be clean (unless you villagers are smart and realize I'm always a villager). arguing with you is not helping the village unless many people were suspicious of me. the wolves are probably being smart and staying out of the way of your rampage (gator /rong maybe??)

I fight dirty when i have a wolf in my sights.

Gator wants to lynch to lynch a better target mentioning Gabe, lets make it easy
run a me vs Gabe wagon . I'm not going to out as a seer to try and save myself . I am campaigning on an Ong is a wolf and should die platform. Gabe is saying that ong is a villager and should live. put him under pressure . If you lynch me you'll see i'm a villager if you lynch gabe then we'll see what his agenda is.

when i was campaigning on Ong I was a wolf according to ONG JKDS and Gabe. now that i'm linking the three of them together they still claim i'm a wolf but daren't lynch me and have me shown as a villager . I've said that i'm a late game role and conveniently they all want to lynch another villager and put another seer potentially at risk or force them to out .
Comeon gabe you are sure i'm a wolf put your money where your mouth is . head to head between me and you....one of us has to die and sort this out.

[Keith]

rong I agree that if ong was a wolf and thought he was in trouble then he needs to do something like he did

but I don't think he would claim one thing then switch to claiming something else (I know it makes sense for him to do this in retrospect, but I don't think it's his most likely action in the moment)

also I typically trust posters who post a wall of text but rong isn't saying much in all those words

here you are agreeing with my case against ong and saying that it makes sense for him to do it but because i said he could do it as a wolf you are convinced that i'm a wolf and because Ong did it , you are convinced that he is a villager. Your logic is truly outstanding.

[Keith]

maybe its time to test out Gabe's catch and release system rescind JFDS lynch Gabe

[GatorJH]

rong isn't saying much in all those words

This is definitely something I can agree with. For the most part he said player x is being player x and provided no real insight on most of the village.

I have to get my FF lineups in shape then will be reading through the thread and posting my thoughts on various people, starting with my highest suspects.

[Luco]

I’ve had a look through bigred’s posts. I think he gave away more than he meant to in posts #502-504.

Look at this:

#503 & #504

Looking back on the first day I think there's a high chance Luco is a wolf as well.

And if he is, I think we need to look at Jums

On the surface it looks like he’s saying jyms and I could be wolves. But he’s not, it’s more insidious than that. What he’s saying is ‘if [villager] flips wolf then we should take a look at [wolf]’, while fully knowing that my wolf flip will never happen. It’s a cover post with no real intent of going after jyms. If I die the jymswolf link he created here is weakened, while still showing that he's kinda got jyms on his radar.

#106

Daven still most suspicious. Super light hearted until some pressure and now the angry responses.

I'd be down for a luco lynch as well since he's been afkish.

says I’m afkish. I haven’t even posted

#109

This is jyms learning a lesson from the previous game. Can't tell whether it's villager jyms or wolf jyms.

fence sitting on jyms.

#335

CLEARLY THE WORDS OF A WOLF!

lighthearted poke at jyms, no real intent

#339

I also don't want to lynch jyms yet. Yes, he's playing a different game, but I'm not quite sure which game that is. Same with JKDS. I like a Daven lynch much more.

more jyms fence sitting, lightly defends him

#351

I'm giving jyms a day 1 pass. We'll see what happens on day 2.

more jyms fence sitting

#381

I'm staying with Daven due as I fear Daven wolf more than jyms wolf based on the last two games.

More jyms defense

Now we get to this:
#502

Agreed. I don't think JV's death, an ong death, or a Keith death does anything to clear my alignment. It's silly to suggest that. Honestly, I was leaning towards JV being a wolf until he was killed due to his alignment with me. Wolves love to pick out villagers and go "yeah, bro..so villagery, such innocence. wow." Usually it's Wuf they align with.

I don't know what to do this day. There's a lot going on but I'm not seeing any clues towards a wolf. I think there's a wolf in JKDS, Gabe, and Keith but I don't know which way. Other than that I'd be willing to bet Hoopy or Jums is a wolf. My 100% Ong is a wolf feeling is quickly subsiding.

Ok so you name a wolf trope about buddying up, then conveniently name a confirmed villager and take what you just identified as a villager stance. JV is dead, this post is worthless. Show me one single post where you indicated this while he was still alive.

Then you throw out jkds, gabe and keith with no reasoning and no preference, and throw in hoopy, jyms and myself with no reasoning. Jyms is well hidden here.

Still waiting to hear you explain why I'm a wolf.

lynch bigred

[wufwugy]

keith - gabe
hoop - gator
jkds - jyms
ong - keith
jyms - ong
gabe - gator
bid - gabe
luco - bigred

no vote - bigred, rong, gator

gabe - 2
gator - 2
jyms - 1
keith - 1
ong - 1
bigred - 1

Day 2 ends in 29 hours and 7 minutes

[jyms]

I've beleived gator was a wolf from page one. It's just a feeling and his tone so don't ask me for any evidence.

Lynch gator

[GatorJH]

I've beleived gator was a wolf from page one. It's just a feeling and his tone so don't ask me for any evidence.

Lynch gator

Thanks for putting in the effort.

[GatorJH]

OK. I have now read through page 4 (post 150) and Bigred, Gabe, Luco, and Hoopy top my suspect list while JKDS, Keith and Ong top my villager list with one caveat on Ong (to be discussed later in this post). Detailed thoughts are as follows:

Note: Through these posts Jyms comes off more as disinterested villager instead of wolf. While the thought could be that he is playing that way as a wolf it is a fairly dramatic change from his style last game (as others have pointed out but I personally didn't fully review the last game) and I think it would be pretty risky for him to change styles so much.

Bigred - Bigred looks exactly like a wolf who is not really reading the thread, but wants to make it look like he is. Here are a few examples of that:

Post 47:

lynch daven

bro is trying to mess around and act casual, you heard it here first!

Then confirms Daven bold, mentions Luco here, but mysteriously NOT BID who has also been missing to that point. The leads me to believe that he and Luco could both be wolves as it would be easier for him to mention a missing fellow wolf than to review the thread and see two players MIA
Post 106:

Daven still most suspicious. Super light hearted until some pressure and now the angry responses.

I'd be down for a luco lynch as well since he's been afkish.

Post 112: He mentions Keith here who, at that point, looked WAY more like a villager than a wolf which Bigred would have noticed if he were actually reading the thread.

I'd also be willing to lynch imsavy (for light hearted lynch wuf post) or Keith (weak jump onto Daven bandwagon). I realize they're not strong reads but it's day 1.

And now the grand finale.

Post 149

Why does Ong think daven is a villager? Didn't he bold him?

followed by post 150: which quotes this Ong post:

Yeah daven is totally a wolf, this is what he does when he's a wolf, reads the whole thread and replies individually to each one so it boosts his post count and looks like he's hunting. Standard davenwolf.

lynch daven

Yup. rescind daven, lynch ong

However Ong had stated in post 138:

I think you might be right about daven being a villager though luco.

rescind

This was all right after Luco's "Ong didn't get the villager pm" post and all of that conversation which Bigred doesn't even mention. This whole scenario looks like wolf bigred creating distance from a wolf ong who just got caught (so my caveat from above is that if bigred is a wolf then it could be feasible that Ong is one too).



Gabe and Rong - gabe jumps right out of the gate and locks in on Rong which is so not like Gabe. As I was reading this my initial thoughts were that this was an early play by Gabe to gain villager cred when he "looks up rong" on a later night and that there was a high probability that both of them could be wolves. Then Rong makes this post:

It's a game designed for fake outs. So look for two players going at it today to justify their n1 look up. Just a thought.

Would include ong v Daven, Gabe v me.

I mean this is what I'd do if I was a wolf. I'd be planning my fake out now. And Gabe, yes I'm talking about what I'd do as a wolf. But in a new format this is important.

I doubt Rong, as a wolf, would make this post so now it looks more like Gabe putting early pressure on Rong so he can clear him later.

Gabe then stays locked on Rong but also makes several posts where he appears to be giving himself an out if the votes change by hinting that he could switch wagon's but never acts on them. Gabe also makes the following as the 23rd post in the entire thread:

not many players so don't expect a long day 1. lets lynch rong and get working on tonight. if I'm right you can clear a villager and kill a wolf !

I have no night 1 power so angel please protect me

Gabe pushing for a quick day 1 lynch doesn't seem like Gabe at all to me.

Gabe also makes this post (post 127) where he suspects Bigred and again looks to me like he is setting up to clear Rong at a later date.

rong jyms bigred could all get the rope. I think I'd prefer bigred over jyms. jyms seems to balance his play well... like he acts in a similar way whether he's good guy or bad... but the problem is that "balanced" appearance is a suspicious player, not an innocent one

I've been scheming on when I can out and how other roles outing might factor in. I like this diffusion game because its different but plenty simple

I would not be suprised AT ALL if Bigred and Gabe were on the same team. They seem to fairly avoid each other and point to totally different concepts which wolves like to do.

Thoughts on Hoopy and Luco coming soon.

[gabe]

like 3 of my last 4 games I went super hard at someone from day 1. and after reading lucos post on bigred I could definitely be cool with lynching him

I don't see how luco is a wolf ever

[GatorJH]

I don't see how luco is a wolf ever

Care to expand on that thought because after the first 150 posts I think there is a greater than 50% chance he could be one.

[OngBonga]

Gator joins my villager club.

I disagree with you about luco though gator. When he attacked me, it came across as someone who actually believed what he was typing. I have just spent a game observing luco as a wolf and I do not think he is that convincing in his sincerity when he's a wolf on the attack. For luco to be a wolf, he's on a much sicker level than he was last game.

[rong]

From the first two pages the only people I think are wolfy are Ong & Gabe. Gabe seemed keen to say how villagery Ong seemed when other people were liking his lynch.

[rong]

And Jyms too. He says nothing and clings on to Gabe. But I don't see gabe and jyms being wolves together after Jyms "I'm following Gabe" comment.

[GatorJH]

This is why I am not sold on Luco being a villager. This was his post:

So JV posts this:

So everyone gets a "you can do X on night Y", including the wolves right? As in, on some nights we won't have a vig/seer/angel because it's the wolves fake turn? If not, we can all out and look for duplicates. But I didn't pay much attention in the sign-up thread..

Thinking about his role pm, and ong responds with this:

lynch jack

Soulread #1. So much for me playing a different game.

compare this to Hoopy’s response:

Wolves don't have any powers the way I read it. Essentially the village has potential lookups and protects up to night 5.

and daven’s:

the first bit is how it read to me, not the second part though.

and you’ll see what I’m driving at. Ong didn't get this because he never saw the villager pm

lynch ong

But here is what Luco does NOT show.

Hoopy and Daven were actually pointing to the part of Jv's statement that the wolves get night actions they can use or use to fake out. Their entire posts are as follows:

Wolves don't have any powers the way I read it. Essentially the village has potential lookups and protects up to night 5.

So everyone gets a "you can do X on night Y", including the wolves right?

the first bit is how it read to me, not the second part though.

So everyone gets a "you can do X on night Y", including the wolves right?

He also conveniently leaves this out:

Alright you deserve an explanation.

You're not stupid. But you're playing stupid, you made a "villagery" type question when you didn't even check the sign up thread to see if it was covered. Given the game we just played, it's not unreasonable to think maybe the wolves have roles too, but given the roles in play, one would ask what use a x1 seer would be to a wolf. Like I say, you're not stupid. You seem to me to be deliberately trying to ask villagery questions, it didn't strike me as a natural thing for villager jack to ask.

On the offchance you are actually a villager, wolves won't get roles in diffusion. They know how many seers and angels they are, but not who has those roles, and they shouldn't know what nights the powers are active.

In this post Ong is clearly stating that he bolded JV from the wolf statement in JV's post which SHOULD have made him believe that Ong did in fact get the pm.

Net, net is this attack looks very staged to me. I haven't looked past post 150, but iirc he hasn't provided much, if any, input since then because everyone was all "Luco has to be a villager". Wouldn't Luco villager keep trying to find other wolves?

[rong]

I'd also be willing to lynch imsavy (for light hearted lynch wuf post) or Keith (weak jump onto Daven bandwagon). I realize they're not strong reads but it's day 1.

Bigred unlikely a wolf after this comment imo. It would be a rather devious move for wolf beigred to post that as I don't see a wolf not realising imsavy wasn't playing.

[rong]

I fucking hate Gabe! My read flips on him from post to post.

[rong]

Bigred unlikely a wolf after this comment imo. It would be a rather devious move for wolf beigred to post that as I don't see a wolf not realising imsavy wasn't playing.

Gator does not get the same villagery points for not clocking savy wasn't playing because he is devious enough to do it.

[rong]

Luco's a villager.

I don't think he does the whole PM comment thing where he tries to lynch Ong which is followed by Wuf stating that wolves got the villager pm too if he is a wolf.

[GatorJH]

Bigred unlikely a wolf after this comment imo. It would be a rather devious move for wolf beigred to post that as I don't see a wolf not realising imsavy wasn't playing.

So you think Bigred, as a wolf, pays that much attention to detail? I don't.

[rong]

Good chance they would have discussed players in the den. I just think even bigred would read the first post which lists the players.

[rong]

If Ong is a wolf he's done a great job since he outed. He goes from looking really wolfy to looking really villagery in terms of his posting style and content. I guess I just don't trust him. But I've been through my Ong thoughts enough already.

[rong]

if jv flips vill i'm snap lynching gator

D follow through with this or in any way comment on Gator with reference to JV's now known role?

If not, is he just posting anything without any thought? I mean it kind of reminds me of his last wolf game.

[rong]

Is this what you're referring to gator? The enthusiasm? Jack saw me be enthusiastic as wolf and thus because I'm entusiastic I'm a wolf?

Meanwhile, JKDS will tell you that I'm passive and sheepy when I'm a wolf.

So what, you believe jack, who is yet to own the shit out of me when I'm a wolf, over JKDS, who owns my soul and keeps it in a box in his bedroom?

I'm always entusiastic, and jack very much knows this. So for him to use it as evidence against me, even reminding people that he was wolf with me recently, it does the opposite of make me think he's a villager.

Are you actually trying to argue that you're passive and sheepy as a wolf? Really?

[jyms]

Note: Through these posts Jyms comes off more as disinterested villager instead of wolf. While the thought could be that he is playing that way as a wolf it is a fairly dramatic change from his style last game (as others have pointed out but I personally didn't fully review the last game) and I think it would be pretty risky for him to change styles so much.

I'm not disinterested. Just reading the thread and really busy. It's not an excuse, and I'm not hiding. I haven't taken any notes and really am jsut paying attention to people and tone.

[rong]

JKDS seeming very villagery too.

So in my villager camp:

Luco, JKDS, Bigred.

Which leaves:

ong
gator
jums
bid
hoop
gabe
keith

Gabe, Ong, Hoopy and Jyms are my favourites there.

I can vote for any of them. Specifically Ong.

[OngBonga]

I think I'm more passive and sheepy as wolf than I am as villager, yeah. JKDS reads me a lot better than anyone here, to the point that I try to take note of what he says about my wolf game so I know where I need to focus.

gator, I can see where you're coming from, but I'm not convinced. I tend to have more confidence in my villager reads than wolf reads. Both villagers and wolves can come across as opportunistic, but it's very hard for a wolf to come across as sincere, especially one who failed to do so last game. I could be wrong of course, I was very wrong about jack so I'm not expecting people to bow to my reads or anything. But I'm not planning on jumping on a luco wagon any time soon.

[Luco]

Gator did you really imply I'm a wolf with bigred? Go back a few posts.

As for the post about ong, my argument is that hoopy and daven used the words 'read it' and ong did not because he didn't have the pm on his mind. I should have included his other post for completeness but it doesn't really affect what I said there.

Also, jyms has posted twice since I called him out as a wolf with bigred, but he hasn't mentioned him.

[GatorJH]

Gator did you really imply I'm a wolf with bigred? Go back a few posts.

At this point I am just trying to find the first wolf, but if you flip wolf and bigred flips wolf then yes you would be on the same team.

As for the post about ong, my argument is that hoopy and daven used the words 'read it' and ong did not because he didn't have the pm on his mind. I should have included his other post for completeness but it doesn't really affect what I said there.

Thanks for making my point that your argument was weak as shit.

[GatorJH]

Also, jyms has posted twice since I called him out as a wolf with bigred, but he hasn't mentioned him.

Are you talking about me here?

[Hoopy]

Well Gator has posted more so rescind for now.

lynch jyms as he's still wolfin.

[gabe]

I fucking hate Gabe! My read flips on him from post to post.

if a player has an honest perspective that is intending to lead the villagers to maximum survival, that player is not a wolf. if everyone played this way spotting wolves would be easy (luco and imsavy werent doing that last game and i called them out, this game i get the feeling from gator and rong)

seriously people, this concept is a big deal. read gator's posts.. is he helping or just saying stuff he picked up from others ? also he's used some forceful language that i think is uncharacteristic of him, like the "truly believe" and more recently "weak as shit". uncharacteristic language is likely an uncharacteristic role


i really wish i would not need to keep defending myself. i go out on a limb for villagers frequently when i have a solid basis for it because its good for the village to not let lynchhappy villagers hang the wrong person. ong particularly needs defending because he spews so hard, which some of you think is extra wolfy, but i just think is extra ongy.


im still on gator. i dont have a night power tonight either. i've seen some good finds about why some people couldnt be a wolf (ones about luco and bigred recently) but i dont know if this exists for gator. we dont have much to work off so we need to do a lynch thats valuable instead of potentially worthless

[GatorJH]

seriously people, this concept is a big deal. read gator's posts.. is he helping or just saying stuff he picked up from others ? also he's used some forceful language that i think is uncharacteristic of him, like the "truly believe" and more recently "weak as shit". uncharacteristic language is likely an uncharacteristic role

Who did I get the Luco info from?

[GatorJH]

i really wish i would not need to keep defending myself. i go out on a limb for villagers frequently when i have a solid basis for it because its good for the village to not let lynchhappy villagers hang the wrong person. ong particularly needs defending because he spews so hard, which some of you think is extra wolfy, but i just think is extra ongy.

So you are the village savior? What solid information did you have on day one about Rong?

[GatorJH]

I can't shake the feeling that he is working an agenda that does not help the village so I like a lynch gabe

[wufwugy]

gator - gabe
hoop - jyms
jyms - gator
keith - gabe
jkds - jyms
ong - keith
gabe - gator
bid - gabe
luco - bigred

no vote - bigred, rong

gabe - 3
jyms - 2
gator - 2
keith - 1
bigred - 1

If math is right, 18 hours and 41 minutes left

[bigred]

Bigred unlikely a wolf after this comment imo. It would be a rather devious move for wolf beigred to post that as I don't see a wolf not realising imsavy wasn't playing.

So in conclusion: Bigred is stupid and probably not a wolf...

[bigred]

@Luco, did not realize I posted that much about Jums. Apparently I have a crush on him.

I thought you had a few suspicious, hold back posts and you weren't participating enough so I thought I'd light a fire under you for a reaction (success!). Your arguments against me smell more of biased retaliation than actual arguments for a wolf.

[bigred]

Gonna give bigred and gator a villager lean for not realising savy isn't playing, I think a wolf would be more aware of the player list.

Daven is villager and ong is a wolf, I think I can prove both

This post is what bothers me. You're convinced Daven is a villager throughout the day until it's time to seal his bandwagon.

Also, your tune completely 180s on me after I suspect you're suspect. Seems a little reactive and quick to defend which is a common wolf trait. However, I'd think you'd be less prone to this by now in these games so I'm putting you slightly closed to the villager side of the spectrum.

[bigred]

@Gator, how are Gabe and I avoiding each other? Dude has been at the top of my suspicion list since day 1.

[rong]

seriously people, this concept is a big deal. read gator's posts.. is he helping or just saying stuff he picked up from others ? also he's used some forceful language that i think is uncharacteristic of him, like the "truly believe" and more recently "weak as shit". uncharacteristic language is likely an uncharacteristic role

Yeah the "weak as shit" comment really stood out to me as well.

Combine that with this:

So you are the village savior? What solid information did you have on day one about Rong?

Which is a bandwagon he promptly jumped on agreeing with your case against me, which he now sees as reason to attack you.

I think I quite like a lynch gator

[rong]

So in conclusion: Bigred is stupid and probably not a wolf...

Deviousness and intelligence aren't the same thing.

[BankItDrew]

gabe is obv at the top of my wolf list as mentioned at the beginning of day 2.

Gator is currently at the top of gabes' list.

Therefore, if gabe dies tonight, my thoughts will be that gators' role will be the opposite of gabe. I understand that wolves will often attack another wolf if they feel themselves being threatened with certain death but gabes train hadn't taken the lead until after gabes vote on gator.

Someone mentioned earlier something about the way I'm posting this game looks very similar to the way I posted in the game where I was a wolf. I agree. It's probably because this is my third game in over a year I THINK. First game I was a wolf, second game I made like two posts then lynched day 1. So, your sample size is too small.

The other reason for my posts like this is that I'm always a level 0 Werewolf Game thinker. I'm just not that good yet.

[BankItDrew]

I'd like to state that I'm having second thoughts on my read on ong, which was that he was a villager. I noticed the following:
1) he pushed hard vs daven
2) he pushed hard vs jv
3) he now has keith as bolded and keith is creeping into my villagery category

[gabe]

Yeah the "weak as shit" comment really stood out to me as well.

Combine that with this:



Which is a bandwagon he promptly jumped on agreeing with your case against me, which he now sees as reason to attack you.

I think I quite like a lynch gator

YES. thats a good gator slipup right there

also to all the people on the sidelines, notice rong could have easily just bolded me and been justified... instead he agrees with the only person (me) really trying to kill him because we have some real, concrete evidence on gator

to anyone trying to lynch me, how about lynch gator and you'lll know alot more about me tomorrow

[Luco]

At this point I am just trying to find the first wolf, but if you flip wolf and bigred flips wolf then yes you would be on the same team.




Thanks for making my point that your argument was weak as shit.

No, it's not. It's a valid observation. Also, if you really thought this why did you wait until bigred said I was wolfy before you posted it?

[Hoopy]

Rong & gabe are making some good points about Gator

rescind jyms
lynch Gator

Also I'll say again that the lookup tonight should be Ong if there is one.

[Luco]

Bigred - Bigred looks exactly like a wolf who is not really reading the thread, but wants to make it look like he is. Here are a few examples of that:

Post 47:


Then confirms Daven bold, mentions Luco here, but mysteriously NOT BID who has also been missing to that point. The leads me to believe that he and Luco could both be wolves as it would be easier for him to mention a missing fellow wolf than to review the thread and see two players MIA

This is the bigred / luco link I referred to last night. You clearly say that bigred and I might be wolves together because he mentioned my name but not BID. You could just as easily have argued that he didn't mention BID because bid is his wolf buddy here, but you didn't.

[OngBonga]

Yeah this gator wagon seems dodgy as hell to me. I'm not liking gabe and rong at this point. It wasn't all that long ago that gabe was begging us to lynch rong, now he's pals with rong so long as gator is the common enemy. Sketch.

[rong]

Well ong, from my perspective I'd say one of the hardest things for a villager is to not auto think wolf when someone campaigns for your lynch. So I don't care if Gabe is trying to lynch me, if agree with something he says I'll say so and act accordingly, likewise if I disagree.

[OngBonga]

I'd suggest gabe looks worse than you rong, seeing as one minute he thinks you're the wolfiest fucker out there, and next he's on the same wagon as you all pally.

[gabe]

that's fishy logic

read gators posts if you want real 'Sketch'

[gabe]

I didn't just hop on gators bandwagon as if all of a sudden I want to believe rong

im voting for gator because of my own conclusions, which I've outlined, and rong has agreed

[Luco]

@Luco, did not realize I posted that much about Jums. Apparently I have a crush on him.

I thought you had a few suspicious, hold back posts and you weren't participating enough so I thought I'd light a fire under you for a reaction (success!). Your arguments against me smell more of biased retaliation than actual arguments for a wolf.

I've already explained that I didn't see the need for further ong discussion for the meta I laid out in post #530 - he'd be more likely to give his role away on day2. I figured it way back, here's post #261

Need sleep. Less focus on ong pls.

Where I tried to steer the convo away from ong without giving away why, and post #385 in response to keith

I disagree that wolf ong would pull a wolf report on a fellow wolf, he'd know he's a likely seer target tonight so that would give us two for one

Which shows at least that I'm thinking about how wolf ong will behave the next day. Both of these are before the post you apparently didn't like.

This post is what bothers me. You're convinced Daven is a villager throughout the day until it's time to seal his bandwagon.

Also, your tune completely 180s on me after I suspect you're suspect. Seems a little reactive and quick to defend which is a common wolf trait. However, I'd think you'd be less prone to this by now in these games so I'm putting you slightly closed to the villager side of the spectrum.

I admit I had you leaning village until you posted that I'm a wolf but failed to give a reason. How can I defend myself against an accusation that's just floated out there like that? It struck me that you could be floating the idea to see if there's any appetite for it, and if not then I'm dead tonight.

As for daven, my whole argument for him as villager and ong as wolf was based on the pm thing and the mod(!) stepped in to discount that. The fact remains that wuf made that post for a reason and we need to figure out why.

[Luco]

Oh and you still haven't explained why you're linking me to jyms

[Luco]

Gator joins my villager club.

I disagree with you about luco though gator. When he attacked me, it came across as someone who actually believed what he was typing. I have just spent a game observing luco as a wolf and I do not think he is that convincing in his sincerity when he's a wolf on the attack. For luco to be a wolf, he's on a much sicker level than he was last game.

Is this tit for tat because I said you can't balance your range? lol

[gabe]

it's ok he doesn't need to explain it. luco should not be in danger of getting lynched anytime soon. the PM thing he brought up was too specific and potentially clever for a wolf to think of

also I had forgotten about wuf stepping in to clarify that. it probably means something... mods shouldn't really be stepping in to game arguments / accusations

I do think wuf would be less likely to step in if luco was a wolf, because why would a mod want to impede a wolf? that wouldn't be fun

in the game I modded I had to resist the urge to post when ong kept insisting the game was broken. to me it obviously wasn't, but I though it better for wolf ong to be left to his own strategy