The problem with gay marriage

[a500lbgorilla]

Thinking Fast and Slow gets brought up a lot on this forum, and rightfully so. Its a pretty good book. In it, the idea that we reach conclusions first, and then look for rationals is discussed. We have our immediate, gut reaction to something...and then attempt to find reasons that this reaction is legitimate.

This epitomizes the appeal to tradition fallacy that occurs with gay marriage. When saying "well, tradition is man and a women", people arent thinking about the logical implications. They have their immediate gut reaction, and then use tradition to justify it. They dont think about how, traditionally, it was between two chaste people. Of the same race. Of the same faith. They also dont recognize that just 200 years ago, marriage wasnt between a "man and a woman", but between a "30yr old man and a 14yr old girl". They also get stuck in what their own tradition might be, ignoring that people who dont share the same beliefs as them get married all the time. Its not a "christian" thing. It happens with mormons, jews, everybody.

That brings us to the next fallacy. The "its a christian tradition, and the bible says..." fallacy. Now, I'm not going to research Judaism...so forgive me for putting my foot in my mouth with my next line. But if jews had a rule that said "you cant eat pork on the day of your wedding", would you give a single fuck? Probably not, right? The rules of another religion, which you dont recognize or accept, have no bearing on your own beliefs. Marriage isnt about appeasing every religion on the planet, nor even just one religion. Its a personal bond between two people. Even Christian rules and beliefs don't seem to apply to most Christians! One look at the divorce rate could tell you as much. If people are permitted to get married, without strict adherence to their own religious scripture, it stands to reason that strict adherence is not a requirement to marriage. Even minimal adherence is not a requirement, though. An atheist man and women are permitted to marry in the US. It is clearly not a marriage requirement that both people, or even one person, adheres to christian beliefs.

Tradition doesnt matter. Religious views dont matter. Its a legal issue.

Careful now. Tradition has one thing going for it -

It worked.

For something to actually work in this world, to actually manage, is the highest standard of success.

It's unwise to turn your nose up to something that's worked.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Careful now. Tradition has one thing going for it -

It didn't kill us all.

For something to actually work in this world, to actually manage, is the highest standard of success.

It's unwise to turn your nose up to something that's worked.

FYP

Just 'cause something happened and we didn't die doesn't mean the thing that happened was a good thing better than the alternatives.

[OngBonga]

FYP

Just 'cause something happened and we didn't die doesn't mean the thing that happened was a good thing better than the alternatives.

Yes, quite.

If we try to get villain to fold, and we go all in for twice the pot, and he folds, does that mean it worked? Sure it did, but maybe a pot sized bet would've worked too, and if it didn't, we lose less.

We're not looking for things to simply work, we want the most +ev way of things working.

[a500lbgorilla]

Yes, quite.

If we try to get villain to fold, and we go all in for twice the pot, and he folds, does that mean it worked? Sure it did, but maybe a pot sized bet would've worked too, and if it didn't, we lose less.

We're not looking for things to simply work, we want the most +ev way of things working.

Well, if you shove for twice the pot and he flips over the nuts, that certainly didn't work.

Notice that none of tradition encountered this problem. And, in fact, was the other side of the table almost every time.