*** Official Putin Started Shootin' Thread ***

[OngBonga]

Yeah I did hear some Russian sympathizers were running for it. It's not their land, they picked the wrong side, is my first thought.

Other than that, do I believe the UA is having a successful offensive? Yes. Do I believe UA people are happy to be liberated? Also yes. I'd be surprised if they weren't, wouldn't you?

It's murky in the East of Ukraine. There are many people who would prefer Russia wins. There are also people who would prefer Ukraine wins. Some want liberating. Others don't. I don't know which of these two groups make up the majority.

I mean, it depends how you define "Ukrainian people". If by that you mean anyone living in Ukraine, then your assumption might be flawed. If you mean ethnic Ukrainians, then yes, of course they all want liberating.

[Poopadoop]

It's murky in the East of Ukraine.

It's historically part of Ukraine. There's ethic Russians living there because Russia owned Ukraine for much of its history. They might exist, but they are in the minority.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians_in_Ukraine

(Didn't know Crimea was majority Russian)

The idea that the Russians are just liberating areas of the Donetsk that want to be Russian would have more weight if they had just invaded there and stopped. Seems more like a convenient excuse to me.


Meanwhile 12% of Edinburgh is etnically English, comparable to 14% Russians in Kherson province that Russia also invaded.

[OngBonga]

I mean, if you're saying Donetsk is "historically Ukrainian" and should therefore remain in Ukraine, then the same argument can be used to point out that Ukraine is "historically Russian".

[Poopadoop]

I mean, if you're saying Donetsk is "historically Ukrainian" and should therefore remain in Ukraine, then the same argument can be used to point out that Ukraine is "historically Russian".

By that logic, Scotland is "historically English." You see how weird that sounds?

If instead you define a nation as having a unique language and culture, Soviet Russia was made up of about a dozen different nations (15 separate SSRs in the Soviet Union), and Ukraine used to be one of them. Donetsk was in the Ukrainian SSR, so apparently the Russians assumed it was Ukranian too.

[OngBonga]

Maybe it is the same. Ukraine is distinct from Russia (not the Soviet Union though).