Russians vs. Americans: A Werewolf Game for October 2015

[Luco]

I plan to. I just wanted to get real time responses from you.

well you got them.

You're probably a villager again given that this is a carbon copy of last game. So I guess we're heading for you trying to mislynch me again too

[Luco]

I find this conversation fascinating

And ridiculous

Makes you both easier to read as villas at least

I know right

Who the fuck doesn't watch rocky?

[lilrascal]

well you got them.

You're probably a villager again given that this is a carbon copy of last game. So I guess we're heading for you trying to mislynch me again too

I'll go read and reassess.

Heading out to dinner now, then I'll go catch up on the thread.

[OngBonga]

lol

You're pulling at straws now.

Am I?

BankItDrew is either a villager or one of the smoothest wolves I've seen, tone wise.

Making this my signature is not role-indicative!

Explain why a villager thinks about making this his sig. Explain to me how this isn't an alignment indicative slip. Tell me why a villager would be pleased to read what tom said.

If someone says to me when I'm a villager "he's either a villager or a great wolf", I tend to think along the lines of "wish I was a wolf", rather than feeling smug.

I don't think I'm grasping at straws here. I'm trying to get inside drew's head. If you think I'm wasting my time, well how about you show me how I should be hunting wolves? I don't see you breaking a sweat yet.

[aubreymcfate]

hey all.

Just read through everything, here's some initial thoughts:

* Regarding those who bolded/targeted Kami: Day 1 person posting flippantly is definitely going to attract at least one wolf in the group of people targeting her.

Top Tier Tom, Ong, and Wug found her wolfy bc of that initial bold and poor reasoning. Gizmo and BID seemed less convinced that she did anything wolfy, and just found her a worthy d1 lynch bc they didn't find her posts serious enough. So there are 2 camps of Kami lynching -- those who took her posting seriously enough to think she is wolfy, and those who see that she's posting like she doesn't care and find her a liability.

conclusions from above: There is definitely a wolf in that group, even if I don't find voting for her particularly wolfy in and of itself (majority of kami votes are villagers, obv). Not sure if one mode of reasoning seems wolfier than the other yet but I think it's worth keeping in mind.

* Gizmo flipping to Rilla when he thought Rilla was wolfy and back to Kami when Rilla clarified his post makes Gizmo lean more villager than the rest to me. It looks authentic.

* chuckling IRL at the rocky convo. makes lilrascal lean village for me bc of how much of a stretch it is. seems more likely for a villager to try to catch someone on some insanely subtle slip (and be so earnestly relentless about it!) but if he is a wolf, that's very clever.

[Luco]

* chuckling IRL at the rocky convo. makes lilrascal lean village for me bc of how much of a stretch it is. seems more likely for a villager to try to catch someone on some insanely subtle slip (and be so earnestly relentless about it!) but if he is a wolf, that's very clever.

well at least someone enjoyed it

[MadMojoMonkey]

Catching up. I got to lurk a bit during the day, but I didn't have any time to post.

I'm not sure what you're saying. You don't want to lynch her because... she could provide entertainment value?

Sorry if I was obtuse in that post. I was getting tired.
Here it is, for context:

I blew up baudib's mind-brain for as much in the Varchertine's game. It was a mistake.

I'm just trying to establish how it is that my read of Kami is that she's perfectly content-free and correlate that to her winning a championship game.

I feel similar about bigred. I mean, he's not much help at solving most games. If he posts a few lolcats or gifs in any game day, then his activity is par. The thing is, while his content is the pits, he usually gets a hearty belly laugh out of me if he's active enough to post. (His, "You mean I got one?" U wot m8 post was epic. ) So, while I totally agree with wuf's assessment that bigred probably wont contribute, I still don't want to vote him on D1. Certainly not before he's even posted. Too much lol equity.

I blew up baudib's mind-brain for as much = I voted to lynch baudib over similar pretext

in the Varchertine's game = the name of the WW game we played was Varchertines. It was in February, and all of the role PMs were characters from the show Archer.

I feel similar about bigred = I agree with the notion of voting off dead weight when the odds are about equal that they are wolf or not.

The rest is really the dissimilarities between bigred and Kami, and that I don't really want to vote for bigred before he's posted on D1, because he usually makes me laugh. Which means that voting for him is the opposite of making the game more tolerable.

[Luco]

yeah so ong/drew are lookin pretty v/v but good luck trying to convince them

[Luco]

can't decide if this is better than average wolf rilla or worse than average villa rilla

[Top Tier Tom]

hey all.

Just read through everything, here's some initial thoughts:

* Regarding those who bolded/targeted Kami: Day 1 person posting flippantly is definitely going to attract at least one wolf in the group of people targeting her.

Top Tier Tom, Ong, and Wug found her wolfy bc of that initial bold and poor reasoning. Gizmo and BID seemed less convinced that she did anything wolfy, and just found her a worthy d1 lynch bc they didn't find her posts serious enough. So there are 2 camps of Kami lynching -- those who took her posting seriously enough to think she is wolfy, and those who see that she's posting like she doesn't care and find her a liability.

conclusions from above: There is definitely a wolf in that group, even if I don't find voting for her particularly wolfy in and of itself (majority of kami votes are villagers, obv). Not sure if one mode of reasoning seems wolfier than the other yet but I think it's worth keeping in mind.

* Gizmo flipping to Rilla when he thought Rilla was wolfy and back to Kami when Rilla clarified his post makes Gizmo lean more villager than the rest to me. It looks authentic.

* chuckling IRL at the rocky convo. makes lilrascal lean village for me bc of how much of a stretch it is. seems more likely for a villager to try to catch someone on some insanely subtle slip (and be so earnestly relentless about it!) but if he is a wolf, that's very clever.

Why's there "definitely" a wolf in that group? Kami is definitely a villager, or you think there's a wolf regardless of her alignment? I don't see why that is definitely the case.

[Kami]

tom

get rekt

[Beck Novo]

hi Kami hru

[aubreymcfate]

Why's there "definitely" a wolf in that group? Kami is definitely a villager, or you think there's a wolf regardless of her alignment? I don't see why that is definitely the case.

I feel pretty confident that Kami is a villager. It's a big part to do with her posting style, but that's not enough -- what really seals it for me is her "lynch me more" post. She doesn't have much experience and most people see her as a liability; if this something she was capable of as a wolf strategy, someone would have said it. She seems like mislynch bait to me, so that's the angle I'm basing the rest of my thought process on. I failed to get this across clearly in the original post bc I was catching up on a lot at once and refining my thoughts as I typed.

[gabe]

can't decide if this is better than average wolf rilla or worse than average villa rilla

i've had this suspicion too. he has tried to draw people to me where normally he would let me slide by on day 1 imo

there are two reasons for this
1) wolf
2) he's succumbing to a phenomenon that i think is kinda affecting all of us orig FTR players. i realized last game (maybe game before) that i was only seriously engaging with people who i had a history with, not really doing it with the new players. when i realized i was doing this, i thought i was going to make a conscious effort to fight this tendency, but then i just got lazy and didnt post much

[gabe]

re: dsaxton, yea he hasnt posted but i would have expected him too. the longer he doesnt, the more likely hes not a wolf i guess...but like i said he cant be lynched anyway since we have a sub waiting in the wings

[gabe]

Why's there "definitely" a wolf in that group? Kami is definitely a villager, or you think there's a wolf regardless of her alignment? I don't see why that is definitely the case.

i agree with aubrey that there is very likely a wolf in that group. i could see why she thinks that. it just seems like out of all the wolves, at least one would get involved with all of that

[gabe]

rilla asking so many questions

normally as a smart villager he just says what hes thinking

its like as a wolf he cant accomplish this

[MadMojoMonkey]

Summaries of my thoughts as I read through.

I get strong Village vibes off of Beck's post 105.

His following posts frame a case on wuf, and he votes wuf. I see his argument as reasonable. I am evaluating my read on wuf.

wuf's next post is typical wolf wuf in that it's all about the show and not about the hunt.

NG (Night Gizmo) is jumping up in wolfy points for his 111 - 113.

I'm worried that BID isn't so village it hurts. He's good at getting a quick consensus about his alignment when he wants to... if he hasn't done so, it's by design, I think. The rest of his bravado is par for the course. Still, I don't like his line on bigred, and I'm not seeing what he's seeing about ong.

Luco is reading as V to me since the last time I posted

lol btw @ "Am I reading your correctly?"

Look, I just want to know whose correctly it was. It was a great read, btw. Would recommend.

lol btw @ "tomorrow we gain should gain a ton of info"
Seriously... You're saying the poisoner should try their best to hit a low EV shot by targeting someone they think is a villager? Not just any villager, but the assumed strong villager that the wolves' poisoner is targeting?
"even if that seems stupid, its not like poison is wasted. the point would be to kill wolves"
Wait. Your recommendation is for the village poisoner to target a person who they think is sketchy, yet who is also perceived as a strong village lean by the wolves? How often does this work out?

Please explain it to me again.

rilla's on wuf... you see what I saw, rilla?
rilla 146
I'm leaning V on rilla.

ong's insta-bold on BID is poor form for a V, but ong embraces the tit-for-tat. Neutral at best.

Through 150

[MadMojoMonkey]

tom

get rekt

Why?

It's a forum game... use your words.

[Kami]

hi Kami hru

Waiting for siu to finish school and eating rice cake

[Kami]

I feel pretty confident that Kami is a villager. It's a big part to do with her posting style, but that's not enough -- what really seals it for me is her "lynch me more" post. She doesn't have much experience and most people see her as a liability; if this something she was capable of as a wolf strategy, someone would have said it. She seems like mislynch bait to me, so that's the angle I'm basing the rest of my thought process on. I failed to get this across clearly in the original post bc I was catching up on a lot at once and refining my thoughts as I typed.

I've played ww for over three years lol

[Kami]

Not expierenced smh

[MadMojoMonkey]

Not expierenced smh

Reads, then? Share the wisdom.

[Luco]

kami plays ww on at least 4 different sites btw

[Kami]

Idk I kinda stopped caring/trying after I got like 6 votes on me for a random vote I made

[Kami]

I'd have to re read honestly

[Beck Novo]

Waiting for siu to finish school and eating rice cake

sounds nice

what do you think of those who voted against you?

[MadMojoMonkey]

Summary of 150 through 225:
I'm still not reading HiFi as V... That early post wasn't much, but it's left me suspicious.
BATM policy votes Kami. I suspect he's capped at 10 posts for the (irl) day.

BID seems legit V.
ong seems V.
Luco seems V.
Tom seems V.

SMF posted again, promises head-bustin'.
weeee!

[Kami]

sounds nice

what do you think of those who voted against you?

They jealous of my sweg and are mean for insulting my skill

[TheBrokenATM]

I just got promoted to new store and need to clean up my old store to hand over tomorrow and then go clean up the new one is a mess and needs work.
That's why I been in and out
I'm here for a bit multitabling

[MadMojoMonkey]

To put this simply: I now think Ong comes across as mostly reasonable but his evolution in response to Drew's pressure feels... off, not correct for a villager, more likely to come from a wolf because the mindset is wrong. Saying he's a lock wolf but not wanting to convince other people of that, not even really trying to convince me of that while saying "don't be so easily fooled by a wolf"; shying away from a confrontation when he (apparently) loves to argue seems more like a wolf who knows he'll just attract more negative attention to himself GG getting into a brawl rather than a villager who is willing to defend himself.

You don't both call someone who reads you well a wolf for reading you wolfy and then shy away from rebutting that, while still calling him a wolf... the transition / evolution feels totally wrong to me.

@rilla: does this post pass your villager test?

[MadMojoMonkey]

@BATM: reads on anyone but Kami?

Is your policy vote on Kami still just a policy vote?

[Top Tier Tom]

^ that's a good post by Tom, he makes good points.

[Top Tier Tom]

MMM, what do you think of my current vote?

Also: do you know who it's for off the top of your head? You don't need to lie if you don't, I don't think it's wolfy, but humor me.

[lilrascal]

so should the village poisoner try to poison the same person the wolves will poison? obv a longshot to hit it but what do we lose? with 2 poisoned people tomorrow we gain should gain a ton of info, then save one

now is a good time since the healer will probably be alive tomorrow


yea?

the village polonium man has to soul read his poison bro

i assume the healer acts in secret (doesnt post in thread)

i dont like the idea of the poisoner target being public. this costs us all the EV of when both sides poison the same target

i think the village should poison someone who the wolves might also want dead. like maybe the wolves agree luco seems villagery, but the village poisoner is suspicious, but also recognizes the wolves might think luco was a strong village lean


even if that seems stupid, its not like poison is wasted. the point would be to kill wolves

but if the hive mind makes a GTO poison-based solution (if we get stuck) then that would make sense

This doesn't seem like normal gabe to me. Also, his logic is LOL bad.

Gabe's normally better than this, hopefully his posting picks up.

[Top Tier Tom]

Yeah rascal; Gabe writes like he's taken valium or something, and I say that not knowing anything about the guy.

[TheBrokenATM]

What do we know?

[TheBrokenATM]

My onl sure fire read is tom is a villager, rest of reads don't matter as much since they are just reads

[Top Tier Tom]

What do we know?

It's D1, we are throwing out feelers, what are your impressions of the game so far? Hot reads? I haven't played with you in a while and you usually offer a unique perspective, would appreciate some Ricky-flavored insight.

[lilrascal]

Yeah rascal; Gabe writes like he's taken valium or something, and I say that not knowing anything about the guy.

Like I said, hopefully he gets better as I catch up, but from what I read, it doesn't look good so far.

[aubreymcfate]

Not expierenced smh

lol chill, I misread something someone said about you.



Anyway by her admission she doesn't care and unless I find something more compelling than a kami lynch before night, I'm down for that. Should be fun to analyze after the fact.

lynch kami


(mmm, is your name tom?)

[TheBrokenATM]

Lilrascal!!!

[bigred]

Jesus Christ. The game started yesterday and there's already 5 pages. FUCK ALL OF YOU.

Now time to read the first page cause maybe I wasn't supposed to post. But seriously. F ALL OF U

[Top Tier Tom]

Jesus Christ. The game started yesterday and there's already 5 pages. FUCK ALL OF YOU.

Now time to read the first page cause maybe I wasn't supposed to post. But seriously. F ALL OF U

This looks promising

[lilrascal]

Lilrascal!!!

Hey, BATM. Welcome to FTR.

Why do you say TTT is villa. I've got a slight villa lean on him.

Are you still limited in your posting?

[TheBrokenATM]

Tom I been super disconnected from WW. Shouldn't play really but here I am inning games in 4 different sites and they all ongoing as we speak.
I need to catch up. I might do it tomorrow. I find it hard to play with a lot of people I don't know. I must learn how to steal their soul. It's a process

[lilrascal]

Jesus Christ. The game started yesterday and there's already 5 pages. FUCK ALL OF YOU.

Now time to read the first page cause maybe I wasn't supposed to post. But seriously. F ALL OF U

I literally LOL'd at this.

[Kami]

No my name is kami

[MadMojoMonkey]

MMM, what do you think of my current vote?

Also: do you know who it's for off the top of your head? You don't need to lie if you don't, I don't think it's wolfy, but humor me.

I'm still trying to blast through the posts I couldn't respond to when I first read them at work.

Is your vote still on JKDS?

I thought it was odd that you pulled your vote off of ong on the same page as the above quote and without a change of stance.

[Top Tier Tom]

Tom I been super disconnected from WW. Shouldn't play really but here I am inning games in 4 different sites and they all ongoing as we speak.
I need to catch up. I might do it tomorrow. I find it hard to play with a lot of people I don't know. I must learn how to steal their soul. It's a process

Haha, okay. Well, I look forward to whatever you can contribute because I'm in the same boat here. Don't want to be too heavy handed, don't want to be too passive, having trouble reading people without meta on them so falling back on basics to try and do so.

[MadMojoMonkey]

(mmm, is your name tom?)

Nope, I'm Sean.

[Top Tier Tom]

I'm still trying to blast through the posts I couldn't respond to when I first read them at work.

Is your vote still on JKDS?

I thought it was odd that you pulled your vote off of ong on the same page as the above quote and without a change of stance.

I voted for JKDS this morning, Ong a little while later, and then went back to JKDS when Beck quoted JKDS's second post and reminded me of how weird his statements were.

I don't always think to state "I'm falling back to my other wolf lean" but if you want to imagine sand slowly pouring onto a scale, I was softening on Ong ever since he said "I'm sorry you think passion is role indicative" [that seemed sincere enough to weaken my conviction] and slowly started wonder where the hell JKDS was and in my head I had already made the decision to switch votes but the catalyst was Beck [inadvertently] reminding me to do so.

I don't always explain my internal back and forth like that because it's not really adding anything new to the thread, people already know what I want them to know about my thought process so far

[lilrascal]

Haha, okay. Well, I look forward to whatever you can contribute because I'm in the same boat here. Don't want to be too heavy handed, don't want to be too passive, having trouble reading people without meta on them so falling back on basics to try and do so.

My advice for both of you and BATM is to stick with the basics. Yes, there's a lot of meta based play here, but that can be easily abused. Also, only 8 of the players in this game are true FTR regs. I'm not counting myself in that since I've been here less than a year.

[Top Tier Tom]

I also change my mind a lot and if I posted every single change, we'd have 2000 posts already

[MadMojoMonkey]

Summary 225 - 300:

I can give Beck a village lean.

I really want to lynch NightGizmo right about now. How is this not a thing we're doing?
Not bolding yet, 'cause need to get fully caught up. Then need to 'splain myself.

[MadMojoMonkey]

I voted for JKDS this morning, Ong a little while later, and then went back to JKDS when Beck quoted JKDS's second post and reminded me of how weird his statements were.

I don't always think to state "I'm falling back to my other wolf lean" but if you want to imagine sand slowly pouring onto a scale, I was softening on Ong ever since he said "I'm sorry you think passion is role indicative" [that seemed sincere enough to weaken my conviction] and slowly started wonder where the hell JKDS was and in my head I had already made the decision to switch votes but the catalyst was Beck [inadvertently] reminding me to do so.

I don't always explain my internal back and forth like that because it's not really adding anything new to the thread, people already know what I want them to know about my thought process so far

It could be significant that Beck persuaded you.

What is your read on Beck?

[HiFi]

I'm so pissed off

[HiFi]

Need to read now

[lilrascal]

This death stare with bid probably just means ong is missing baudib

This is so true and made me laugh.

I'm still catching up, but this is just one of the posts that is making me reassess my early read on Luco to be villa. I also think what Luco is pointing out makes Ong likely villa too.

[BooG690]

D1 and 434 posts. That must be some kind of record. I'm pretty sure nobody mentioned me which bores me.

I like Rascal as V after his curious interaction with Luco re: DRAGOOOOOO. Wolves don't grasp at weak arguments like that.

HiFi, BATM and Kami aren't posting anything of substance. Unsure what to think of this but getting rid of any one of them can't be too bad for the village.

Also, only 8 of the players in this game are true FTR regs. I'm not counting myself in that since I've been here less than a year.

Which 8 are those?

[bigred]

Welp, the usual lynch bigred arguments are out there. Always an easy way to look productive (we gotta get rid of the deadweight!) for the village while doing nothing to actually find wolves. Hat off to ya, BID.

Initial thoughts are Rilla is slightly off but I'm unsure if I actually feel that or it's because a few other people have mentioned it. He's certainly not driving the conversation which I'm used to but there could be a reason for that. Life obligations, the game starting on a weekend, or being a wolf/special all count.

BID is BIDing real hard. That's not a compliment.

Ong is ONGing a little less. I think that suggests some sort of investment in the game other than vanilla villager but Ong will ONG soon enough.

Not sure what to think of the new players. TTT aand Hifi seem active. TTT seems very stream of conscious posting that comes off as genuine. That suggests villager to me but a wolf could do the same. Either way we're getting information.

Kami's whatevs I don't care go ahead and lynch me is slightly annoying. Doesn't really give me a lean either way. A wolf knows it's hard to defend yourself on a day 1 and feigning that you could care less if you die on D1 isn't a bad approach. Or could just be a villager. I will say that if the Kami wagon swings to someone else, we look at who made that happen. Could link a few wolves.

Other than that nothing sticks out on my first read. Wuf is wugin it up. JKDS doesn't stick out which isn't a surprise.

Please stop posting so much, nerds. I can't be checking every 5 minutes (queue BID's BIGRED WANTS TO LIMIT DISCUSSION WHAT A WOLF post)

[lilrascal]

Gladly.

Villager ong is arguably the most straightforward asset that we have. He's clear and concise and bulldogish. Take his arguments with baudib for example - stubborn as fuck. He's usually wrong on baudib, which is hilarious, but he's relentless nonetheless.

Here, ong doesn't give a fuck about getting into it with me even though he bolded me. I'm annoyed af that he started a wagon of mine but won't engage with me. I'm annoyed that I read his tone as wolfy but I didn't pull the trigger asap. I'm annoyed that I rarely survive to D2 (I think it's happened three times in the last two years).

Wolf ong is a fence sitter. He's not commited to doing anything unless others agree with him. Wolf ong blends in with the crowd.

I don't like this post by BID. The last sentence is not what Ong is doing this game, so I don't know why he's saying this.

[Top Tier Tom]

It could be significant that Beck persuaded you.

What is your read on Beck?

Villager, with the caveat that I've only played one game with him and don't know him that well yet

[BooG690]

Since when does Bigred post substance?

[lilrascal]

D1 and 434 posts. That must be some kind of record. I'm pretty sure nobody mentioned me which bores me.

I like Rascal as V after his curious interaction with Luco re: DRAGOOOOOO. Wolves don't grasp at weak arguments like that.

HiFi, BATM and Kami aren't posting anything of substance. Unsure what to think of this but getting rid of any one of them can't be too bad for the village.

Which 8 are those?

rilla
BID
gabe
JKDS
Luco
MMM
Ong
Wuf

I guess it actually could be 9, you could be included in that list too, but you haven't played the last few games.

[bigred]

Since when does Bigred post substance?

Since when were you let out of your cage, clown boy?!

Missed you

[BooG690]

I guess it actually could be 9, you could be included in that list too, but you haven't played the last few games.

This is pretty much all I wanted to hear. Making sure you guys didn't forget about me.

[bigred]

rilla
BID
gabe
JKDS
Luco
MMM
Ong
Wuf

I guess it actually could be 9, you could be included in that list too, but you haven't played the last few games.

I was accidentally vigging multiple villagers while you were still wearing diapers.

[MadMojoMonkey]

MMM, what do you think of my current vote?

I think JKDS dies more often than not if he posts much on D1, regardless of role.

He is practically incapable of not looking wolfy to me until he has a lot of info to sift through. Even then, I'm usually not convinced.

I know that I always think he's wolfy, so I'm trying to learn from my errors,
but he makes it so hard.

Lawyers! Doing their lawyer things. Making their lawyer cases. Being all good at arguing.
And stuff. And things.

[lilrascal]

I was accidentally vigging multiple villagers while you were still wearing diapers.

LOL. I doubt you were even around when I was wearing diapers.

[lilrascal]

This is pretty much all I wanted to hear. Making sure you guys didn't forget about me.

[lilrascal]

Probably be around tomorrow n start busting some heads

SMF, I plan on holding you to this.

[lilrascal]

Also, since when am I concise?

Check this out...





drew is just throwing random words out there purely in an attempt to justify his gut read. I am far from concise.

I think of you as concise. Sorry... My bad.

More bad posting from BID IMO. I've never heard anyone describe Ong's posting as concise.

I would call it passionate, but never concise.

[lilrascal]

Also, since when am I concise?

Check this out...





drew is just throwing random words out there purely in an attempt to justify his gut read. I am far from concise.

To put this simply: I now think Ong comes across as mostly reasonable but his evolution in response to Drew's pressure feels... off, not correct for a villager, more likely to come from a wolf because the mindset is wrong. Saying he's a lock wolf but not wanting to convince other people of that, not even really trying to convince me of that while saying "don't be so easily fooled by a wolf"; shying away from a confrontation when he (apparently) loves to argue seems more like a wolf who knows he'll just attract more negative attention to himself GG getting into a brawl rather than a villager who is willing to defend himself.

You don't both call someone who reads you well a wolf for reading you wolfy and then shy away from rebutting that, while still calling him a wolf... the transition / evolution feels totally wrong to me.

Basically Ong I think your mistake here was calling Drew a wolf right off the bat, expecting Drew would thunderdome you and you were already cornered... rather than trying to just convince him he was wrong.

The stance you took implicitly reveals that you know he's right about you being a wolf and couldn't talk him out of it; your mindset is a guilty one.

These posts from Tom ping me a little bit. He keeps asking for meta and then listens to BID's view of Ong's posting and then pointing out how it's wolfy. This seems to be a big jump by Tom without the backup.

[lilrascal]

Disregard the first quote in above post. The forum is not clearing MQ's again. Sigh.