|
I just think if you're going to give "regulations bad!" as a valid reason for leaving you should have a basic (not intricate, just basic) understanding of how those regulations affect us.
https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-ma...EU%20countries.
Regulations are legal acts that apply automatically and uniformly to all EU countries as soon as they enter into force, without needing to be transposed into national law. They are binding in their entirety on all EU countries.
That's all I need to know. That last sentence is extremely important, and demonstrates that we are not sovereign as an EU member state. If your plan is to convince me that even in the EU, we have full sovereignty, you're fighting a lost cause, even in debate with me, who can only be bothered with quick dirty googling. It takes seconds to learn that we are bound by their rules, which once again brings us to democratic control.
There's lots of laws in this country that I have to follow. I don't use that as a reason to pack up and go live in the woods.
Not a reasonable analogy. We don't have to accept outside laws and regulations, we can instead opt out, which we have done.
I hate to get philosophical here, but just saying words like "sovereignty" and "democracy" is not a valid form of argument. What is it we're losing out on here as a member of the EU in terms of sovereignty and democracy?
It's like you don't know what these words mean. Do you understand how the EU elections work? Do you understand how the president is selected? Do you know what "sovereign" means? It means "possessing supreme power". As a member state of the EU, we don't have that. Pointing out we have some power isn't cutting it, we don't have supreme power, as in total. A the democracy thing is not even worth me getting into. You are a Europhile, you should already understand how their idea of democracy works. If you don't, you're a complete mug.
You're the one who brought up regulations. And the tampon tax. I can only respond to things you say, not things you didn't say. I'm not banana.
You and banana aren't so different. You seize on "tampons" because it's easy to mock, rather than focussing on the more important aspect of tax interference. You aren't interested in a serious debate, you just want to slap me down while feeling smug. So don't pretend banana is your polar opposite.
The Farmer's Union is left-wing?
Fuck knows, probably not, but they are subject to infiltration, and they like money like everyone does. They are corruptible. I don't trust unions at all.
Well first, not everyone in a rural area is a farmer. And second, not everyone who voted to Leave wanted a no deal Brexit.
First, most people in rural areas are influenced by farming in the sense their neighbours (and friends and family) are often farmers.
Second, we've talked about this, but you're conveniently forgetting what the ballot said. The talk about a "deal" only happened after the referendum. The choice was between leaving and remaining. There was no third option, no in between, so anyone who voted to leave and then claims they didn't vote for a "no deal" is either being willfully dishonest or stupid. I voted to leave. When we started to talk about a deal, I preferred a mutually beneficial trade deal, but was not afraid of a no deal because it's precisely what I expected when I voted.
And third, the Farmer's Union as a whole very likely has a better understanding of the economic impact of Brexit than any given individual farmer.
For the most part, sure. Irrelevant. You have to assume they're acting in the best interests of the farmers, rather than serving their own interests or those of financial backers. Unions don't give a fuck about the people they represent. I know someone who got pay rise after pay rise because of his union, to the point he asked his employer if they could actually afford these pay rises. They went bust three months after he asked. The union did not give a fuck about people losing their jobs, all they cared about was their existence and their own pay packets.
If you trust the integrity of unions, more fool you.
Well it's too bad we don't have a trade deal with Canada then. So, why would Canada buy your English tomatoes when they already get all the tomatoes that they need from the US? Are you gonna undercut the US growers as well as the WTO tariffs? You might want to discuss that with the Famers Union.
You kinda missed my point. I only wanted to see if the regulations were as ludicrous as EU regs.
Also, we're in negotiations with Canada regarding a post-Brexit deal.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume that Canada has its own set of regulations on food items it imports. Not sure if you thought regulations were strictly an EU thing. They're not.
You suggested if I want to sell to Canada, I'd have to comply with both EU and Canada regs. Of course regulations are not an EU thing only, it's just they are notorious for overregulating. Maybe Canada are too, they're pretty left wing, I might have walked into a bad example. Let's try USA instead, with their ravenous capitalism.
How is being in the EU forcing us to take large numbers of benefit-seekers? We won't even take refugees on a dinghy.
It's not. We're kind of having two discussions at the same time, one about the EU and another about immigration. And we are taking refugees on a dinghy. What do you think is happening to those who arrive? They're not being deported, at least not that I'm aware of. They should be, back to France, because France is a safe country.
You're blaming the EU for an imaginary immigration policy that welcomes benefit-seekers (which we don't).
I don't even know how much interference the EU have when it comes to immigration. I am aware of the sanctions they imposed on the Hungarians and the Czechs, but immigration was never a relevance to me when it comes to the EU. That's a myth that you are sucked in to, which is why you think we're having one conversation here.
Haha, I doubt very much we will be setting the kind of precedent that other countries currently in the EU will want to follow.
I think a lot of nations are waiting to see how this works out for the UK. Leaving is seen as a massive economic risk. We're the first to take that risk. People are watching.
Oh, I know! Sell them here in the UK! Can you guess what's wrong with that plan, or should I explain it to you? I'll give you a hint: supply and demand.
I could sell my tomatoes piece of piss in the UK if I wanted to. There's a pub half a mile from me that might want them. There's a village shop that sells fresh local eggs a mile away. There's a street market in town. I have friends and family who like chutney. Or maybe I can't be arsed for pocket money and they'll end up as compost. But I can assure you that there is high demand for British tomatoes for two reasons... British people like tomatoes, and British tomatoes are fresher than non-British tomatoes. You mock my "two week old" tomatoes... they're still on the vine. They're as fresh as they get.
|