*** OFFICIAL BREXIT SUNLIT UPLANDS and #MEGA THREAD ***

[Poopadoop]

This is one aspect of what we vote every five years for. Come on poop, at least try to think about it for longer than it takes to read.

How often are the EU elections held?

So you think choosing the lower members of a single-party system is democratic? Imagine if at the next election, you had a choice between Bob (Tories), Mary (Tories) and Ahmed (Tories). Hey, you're voting for it, it's democracy.

Oh yes, I forgot Nigel Farage belonged to the EU Imperium Party.

Another problem with this system is the only people who actually vote in Euro elections are those who support the EU.

Which also explains why Farage was an MEP.

People like me didn't give a flying fuck. So you're not necessarily getting a fair representative that reflects the true will of the people.

I agree that Farage did not represent us very well. Perhaps if we'd elected more people who took the job seriously rather than just acting like xenophobic dicks we could have pushed thru some changes that benefitted us.

It means pro-Euro politicians are more likely to be involved. Of course, sometimes an anti-EU politician goes for it to gob off in their silly little Hague or whatever. Funny that Farage is the most famous of our European politicians. I can't name a single other one. Did Anne Widdecombe have a go at that?

The fact you don't pay attention doesn't mean you didn't have the right to vote, even if just to draw a cock and balls on the ballot or whatever you usually do with your sacred democratic right.

You generally don't just rip up a deal, because it's not a very good negotiating tactic, and therefore not in your best interests, but you can. and trade wars happen all the time. One is happening right now between USA and China. Different circumstances, of course, but all of these tariffs that are being slapped about, they can disappear overnight.

It's like you think intn'l trade is simple and only EU beaurucrats make it complicated. Have you ever seen how many stacks of volumes an intn'l trade agreement is? You could fill an elevator car with some of them. It's not like selling a tomato at your local market mate.

Both China and USA retain their sovereignty during this battle, since China is China's only authority, and USA is USA's only authority. That's what sovereignty means.

We also had the sovereign choice to stay in the world's largest trading bloc. But instead, we chose to exercise our absolute right to shoot ourselves in the face economically.

And so provide a mutual incentive for good faith negotiation.

Right, but it's a default arrangement that suggests that your good faith negotiations failed.

Yes. Such a political integration is unacceptable. Leave as quickly as possible, problem solved.

We are going to look pretty funny in 10 years trying to worm our way back in.

Perhaps, but then again perhaps such an option was prohibitively expensive. The last serious challenge to our sovereignty before the EU was the Suez Crisis. We invaded Egypt with France, USA said "oi, don't do that", we said "what you gonna do about it", they said "economically fuck you up, bitches", we say "sorry our PM has had a nervous breakdown". The economic consequences of disobeying USA were so severe that it's fair to say we lacked true sovereignty. USA was our authority, in the literal sense. They were telling us what to do. Perhaps that is still the case, if so, and there's anything I can ever reasonably do about that challenge to our sovereignty, such as vote, then I'll do it. In the EU, I saw a challenge to our sovereignty, was given the opportunity to do something about it, and acted accordingly.

I think you'll find the EU can not only threaten to fuck us up economically but are willing to do it if pushed to the wall.

How about you just read literally the first line of the wikipedia page for the EU. Something something "political and economic union".

Because the question is what YOU think there is about our membership in the EU that is so damaging, not how Wiki defines the EU.

I'll give you an example of political control from the EU in the UK... human rights. They are our authority on that matter. Even though their human rights is one of the few things worth praising the EU for, and a bill we should look to replicate post-Brexit (I think we intend to), it's an example of political control, and a challenge to sovereignty.

I mean that's the lamest example possible. "They make us respect human rights." Fuck me.

Am I giving you too much credit here? I really thought you'd at least come up with something that was prima facie a reasonable argument.

There is also the illusion of international law, which you might argue is a challenge to sovereignty, but of course we ignore international law when it suits us, with no consequences. SO, hardly an authority.

Did you seriously not hear about the Withdrawal Agreement copout bill Boris just introduced the other day, and what we're being threatened with by the EU and US if we enact it?