Something I should say more often

[MadMojoMonkey]

@wuf
What motivates you to say this isn't about equal treatment?
What specifically has lead you to believe this?

[wufwugy]

What motivates you to say this isn't about equal treatment?

The contemporary version could very well be about equal treatment within the system.

The historical roots are about extraction from the system that African slaves never consented to.

[wufwugy]

system that African slaves never consented to.

That's the soft way of putting it too.

The language was once far more colorful. But the core idea is still one of being unjustly and forcefully integrated into a social/political/power system they did not consent to.

[MadMojoMonkey]

That's the soft way of putting it too.

The language was once far more colorful. But the core idea is still one of being unjustly and forcefully integrated into a social/political/power system they did not consent to.

Isn't the whole point of the protests that they are demanding to be an equal part of the same social/political/power system that they are affected by?

[wufwugy]

Isn't the whole point of the protests that they are demanding to be an equal part of the same social/political/power system that they are affected by?

We seem to be talking past each other.

The current rendition (mid-lower tier BLM action) appears to have the primary stated goal of equal treatment. (though they are confused, but that's a different matter).

The historical and philosophical core (which is what I love about black liberation) is about the progeny of African slaves making their own system instead of being forced into the slavers system.

[wufwugy]

This entire issue of what we've been discussing is one of the things that could potentially get me to not support Trump in the election.

He, and conservatives, definitely do not support liberation from unjust political power.

My problem is that the Democrats are EVEN WORSE on this shit. Malcolm X was right. The white liberal nor the white conservative is friend to the black man. They both want to rule what they should not.

[MadMojoMonkey]

We seem to be talking past each other.

I'm trying to engage in good faith. I'm trying to not tell you what is right, but to understand what you believe is right and why.

If I'm not doing in a way that is both fair and inviting to you, then please help me be better about it.
I'm not always good with people skills, but I am dedicated to not letting that shut me down from trying to be better.

Can you help me understand what it is I'm doing that is making you think I'm talking past you?
I will do my best to change my style to continue the dialogue.

The current rendition (mid-lower tier BLM action) appears to have the primary stated goal of equal treatment. (though they are confused, but that's a different matter).

The historical and philosophical core (which is what I love about black liberation) is about the progeny of African slaves making their own system instead of being forced into the slavers system.

If the current rendition is moving toward equal treatment, then what makes you feel excluded?

[wufwugy]

I'm trying to engage in good faith. I'm trying to not tell you what is right, but to understand what you believe is right and why.

If I'm not doing in a way that is both fair and inviting to you, then please help me be better about it.
I'm not always good with people skills, but I am dedicated to not letting that shut me down from trying to be better.

Can you help me understand what it is I'm doing that is making you think I'm talking past you?
I will do my best to change my style to continue the dialogue.

If the current rendition is moving toward equal treatment, then what makes you feel excluded?

That's a good question.

In 2019, 41 unarmed people were killed by cops. 9 were black and 19 were white.

I only see mass protest when it's a black person killed by (white) cop. I'm told "black lives matter" and that if I don't tow the line, I'm a racist.

I see criminals and lowlifes be martyred. I see thought-leaders in the black community claim this will all be fixed when there is an end to white supremacy and when reparations are paid in full.

And I UNDERSTAND ALL OF IT.

I understand why black criminals are martyred but black on black crime is not. I understand what thought-leaders mean when they say "white", "supremacy", and "reparations". And I agree with all of it.

It's my agreement with black liberation and my understanding of it that leads to feeling excluded.

Using the older colorful language they did in Malcolm X's day: it's about correcting the injustice the white man (and culture) ruling over the black ex-slave. They did not choose to be chained up and shipped over here. They didn't choose to be forced into the white man's religions, the white man's social norms. They didn't choose the white man's system of laws. They have their own ideas and they want to create their own systems.

Thing is, I want that too, and I want it to not be about race anymore. I want liberation from these unjust laws too.

We are all brothers in America. I too would get brutalized by the Law if I refused to do what they told me.

The most powerful ally Black America has is the White America that also wants freedom from injustice perpetrated by "authorities" we do not consent to.

But as long as it's about black lives relative to white lives, we aren't getting there.

[MadMojoMonkey]

What motivates you to say this isn't about equal treatment?

The contemporary version could very well be about equal treatment within the system.

That does not answer my question.

I'm asking you about what motivates you. If all you have to answer is a hollow speculation, then that seems a very low bar, given the criticisms you're posting on the matter.

The historical roots are about extraction from the system that African slaves never consented to.

This is a non-sequitur which does not answer my question, either.


Can you answer with anything more concrete than this?



This is the important part of the question, anyway:
"What specifically has lead you to believe this?"